[opendtv] Re: What does it take to convince
- From: "John Willkie" <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2008 10:30:26 -0800
Oh, come on. You must have mis-written.
"population density" and mid-to high-rises create a "heat-island effect" in
and around cities; note that, when the suburbs get a foot of snow in winter,
the nearby city will usually get much less snow.
That doesn't require population or population density to increase; it has
been known and proven for many decades. There are even more subtle,
recently reported effects (better thermometers) of suburbs versus rural
areas.
But, Tom, the density of humans on the planet is quite low. I have it on
good authority that the density of humans on the wet portion of the planet
is close to zero. That takes up 77% or so of the planet, and involves a
type of substance that is very good at absorbing solar power, and which is
dynamically capable of distributing the results.
The density of humans across the land is still quite low. Ever seen photos
of Alaska? Canada? Nevada? Kansas? New Mexico? Mexico? Non-urban
California? Arizona? Texas? Nebraska? Montana? Idaho? Georgia?
Oklahoma? I can go on, but I won't incluye Western Europe in the list.
Cities certainly have effects and affects on their micro-climates. A minute
portion of the planet is devoted to providing the base for cities.
To say that it's silly to claim -- which I never did, by the way -- that we
have no effect on the planet. It's silly to NOT think that the oceans have
much more effect than do we, and it's ABSURD to use climate models that
don't have even a single line of code to take into account "solar
warming/cooling."
John Willkie
-----Mensaje original-----
De: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] En
nombre de Tom Barry
Enviado el: Thursday, November 13, 2008 4:30 AM
Para: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Asunto: [opendtv] Re: What does it take to convince
I can't prove anything about long term climate change but it is obvious
humans can have a dramatic effect upon their environment as population
density increases. For instance in this country the air is observably
different around any major city, to the naked eye, or nose.
At least in that sense it is silly to claim we can have no effect.
- Tom
Dale Kelly wrote:
>> By the way, doesn't the climate change all the time?
>
> Yes indeed, see the research from Easterbrook posted by Craig. He makes
the
> case that climate change is predictably cyclic in nature. Add to that the
> random events such as major volcanic activity or meteor strikes and the
> climate can vary widely and quickly.
>
>> Have humans always been in control of this? More likely,
>> they have never had much if any of an impact.
>
> I can't disagree with you or prove otherwise but I do suggest that the
human
> dynamic has changed sufficiently over the past 60 years or so that the
> potential for climate change based upon our activity has become an issue.
> After all, the world's population has increased dramatically during that
> period as has our industrial activities. I don't know that this has
impacted
> the climate but it certainly should not be dismissed given that warming
has
> increased dramatically over the past 50 years.
>
> Dale
>
>
>
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