[opendtv] Re: What does it take to convince

  • From: "John Willkie" <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 10:10:31 -0800

"very little solar activity" means that there weren't sunspots; indeed,
you've understated the case in the short term, as we've had a period in the
last few months where there were -- inexplicably -- almost no sunspots.
But, a few years ago, we had the largest solar flare ever recorded; indeed,
so high that our instruments couldn't measure the extent of the flare.  That
event and the high rate of solar activity around that time, was
extraordinary.

Of course, this is changing the argument, since there is no known link
between solar activity and the temperature on the earth.

To the contrary, NASA has been reporting record high temperatures on Venus,
Mars, other planets and even satellites.  They just ignore that there might
be "something solar" going on with Earth and the other objects.

I am told that there are no SUVs or coal-fired plants on the objects in
question, with the exception of Earth.  I am also told that the human
footprint on non-Earth objects is "rather small."

There is "some" science going on at NASA, but not in the area of "global
climate change;" that's just pure religion.

By the way, doesn't the climate change all the time?  Have humans always
been in control of this?  More likely, they have never had much if any of an
impact.  

No, NASA isn't completely unreliable; they just have a recent history of
killing their employees (and others) on leaving Earth or returning to same,
due to their "excellent" engineering.  

Thanks to the perfidy of their masters, we will have at least five years
when their ability to send astronauts off the planet will be funneled
through the Russians.

NASA should be turned into a research and development organization; the U.S.
manned space program -- as if their actually is one -- needs to be
privatized, and NASA accidents need to be investigated by the NTSB.  (A
position I've had since the Challenger disaster.)

I can do this from memory, Dale.  Unfortunately, the BBC web site is having
problems serving up pages of articles on this topic.  You might try on your
own to review the articles that come up when you enter "polar ice pack" into
the search box at www.BBC.co.uk

John Willkie

-----Mensaje original-----
De: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] En
nombre de Dale Kelly
Enviado el: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 9:03 AM
Para: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Asunto: [opendtv] Re: What does it take to convince

> How do we cure rising ocean temperatures?
>
> Cue the sun?

The recent very high ocean temperatures occurred during periods with very
little solar activity. Of course my source is NOAA/NASA and we know that
they are completely unreliable......

> -----Original Message-----
> From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of John Willkie
> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 10:22 AM
> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [opendtv] Re: What does it take to convince
>
>
> How do we cure rising ocean temperatures?
>
> Cue the sun?
>
> Do we have enough data points (other than along the coasts) to
> even know the
> scope of the problem?
>
> John Willkie, who will throw the ice remaining from his soft
> drink the next
> time he visits the Pacific, to see how that works.
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] En
> nombre de Dale Kelly
> Enviado el: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:56 AM
> Para: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Asunto: [opendtv] Re: What does it take to convince
>
> Craig wrote:
> > Nice try, but not true. This is simply the normal cyclic nature of
> > the oceans. And there is no evidence linking the declines in the
> > populations you cite to melting ice. In fact the population of polar
> > Bears has been increasing for nearly three decades.
>
> Reread my posting and you will see that I did not identify
> melting Ice packs
> as the source; rising ocean temperature is the culprit.
>
> When you tell me I'm wrong and use factoids as evidence, please provide a
> credible source for your information and, btw, Rush Limbaugh
> doesn't qualify
> as credible.
> Dale
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Craig Birkmaier
> > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 5:13 AM
> > To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [opendtv] Re: What does it take to convince
> >
> >
> > At 11:47 AM -0800 11/9/08, Dale Kelly wrote:
> > >Craig wrote:
> > >>  Can ANYONE cite even one example of harm that has occurred from the
> > >>  recent warming over the past decade?
> > >
> > >For a start, how about the melting of the arctic ice pack and the
> > >increasingly warming oceans which resulted in the loss of
> viable wildlife
> > >habitat and a reduced population of many species such as Salmon, Polar
> > >Bears, Orca Whales, Oyster, Coral Reefs. etc, etc.
> >
> > Nice try, but not true. This is simply the normal cyclic nature of
> > the oceans. And there is no evidence linking the declines in the
> > populations you cite to melting ice. In fact the population of polar
> > Bears has been increasing for nearly three decades.
> >
> > >
> > >For what it's worth I've attached two URLs that addresses the
> > ocean warming
> > >issue. However, Craig being an avid "Denier", I await his next
> > round of "new
> > >Science" and it's resulting obfuscation.
> > >
> > >http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080618143301.htm
> > >
> > >http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/03/070308220426.htm
> >
> >
> > The oceans have been cooling dramatically for several years. Again,
> > this is the normal cyclic stuff the Earth's climate has been doing
> > for MUCH longer that we ave been recording this kind of data.
> >
> > And the oceans the major carbon sync for the planet. Nothng new about
> > the oceans absorbing CO2. Just the normal state of affairs.
> >
> > >
> > >>  Articles that wring hands about the harm caused by global
> > >>  >warming do not by themselves show that we cause it or how
> we can fix
> > >>  >it.
> > >
> > >Generally you first identify a problem and then devise a fix;
> this seldom
> > >happens simultaneously.
> > >
> >
> > First you have to document real problems and demonstrate - using the
> > scientific method - the causal aspects of that problem. Then you need
> > to come up with meaningful solutions to mitigate the problem.
> >
> > No problem has been rigorously researched and proven - we are being
> > sold this bill of goods based on computer models that may or may not
> > be valid.  There is no solid science linking global climate change
> > with human activity. And there is no science that proves that if we
> > cut back of CO2 emissions we can have a meaningful impact on the
> > climate.
> >
> > Sorry, but this is the reality.
> >
> > Politically motivated change CAN be liked to mans' activities, as
> > were just experienced.
> >
> > I strongly suspect that the efforts to influence science via
> > government sponsored  - outcome oriented - research will continue and
> > that the effort to tax energy use by highly developed nations will
> > accelerate...
> >
> > Regards
> > Craig
> >
> >
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