Craig Birkmaier wrote: > One thing is clear from the presentations, h.264 with the FRE > is significantly more efficient than MPEG-2 ( 8 mbps for h.264 > versus 24 mbps for h.262 for essentially the same level of > perceived quality.) Honestly, though, isn't there some bone in your body that questions these assertions, even after real world experience has shown that things aren't quite so cut and dried? I saw that same presentation, and all I could conclude is that the comparison was probably valid for A PARTICULAR MPEG-2 encoding. Or perhaps, for some odd reason, the result only applied to a very specific case of compressing 1080 at 24p material. So I did a little searching. One interesting tid bit I found was that MPEG-2 encoding can be much more effective if the composition of the GOP is varied in real time, according to the subject matter. And that decoders can handle this variation quite nicely. Another interesting discovery was an explanation of the AVC deblocking filter. Seems like a completely separate algorithm within AVC, which can just as easily be applied to MPEG-2, or any other block-based algorithm, as it can be to AVC. (Very likely what Algolith did.) Another interesting and not-too-recent improvement was this Digigami system: http://www.engadgethd.com/2005/12/23/rumors-of-mpeg-2s-death-greatly-exa ggerated-digigami-does-hd-o/ from end of 2005. Which claims that 720p can be compressed in MPEG-2 down to 3 - 7 Mb/s. I assume this means 720 at 24p, presumably DVD movies. Still, that easily meets the 50 percent improvement over the normal MPEG-2 rates we have seen quoted to us over the past decade. (Wasn't 720 at 24p supposed to require an average of 9 to 10 Mb/s in MPEG-2? Isn't an average of ~5 Mb/s a 50 percent improvement?) So if the 1080 at 24p file in the presentation was encoded using this process, would it still require 24 Mb/s for equal quality to the AVC file at 8 Mb/s? I'll bet you it would not. My bet is that the comparison would have been far less dramatic if state of the art MPEG-2 techniques had been used. There are plenty of articles online that repeat the party line. There are other articles which present a much more balanced picture of the codec wars, such as this recent one: http://www.studiodaily.com/studiomonthly/currentissue/9262.html Unless we own IP in AVC, I'm not sure what motivates the constant exaggeration of the facts. I don't think MPEG-2 encoding is hopeless just yet. I do think that the comparisons made against MPEG-2 are VERY often biased, and for obvious reasons. Meanwhile, for systems where migration to AVC is painful, there seems to be NO EXCUSE for this pretense that we can't move on without it. Bert ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.