[opendtv] Re: TV Prices Fall, Squeezing Most Makers and Sellers

  • From: "Mike Tsinberg" <Mike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 5 Jan 2012 09:58:33 -0500

David,

 

I take your statements as a good theory but let's take a look at reality
below:

 

>> There is no doubt that position a "closed border socialist economy" took
is beneficial to them.

I wish I had time for a more thoughtful reply.  I think this is a common
economic misconception.  Protectionism and isolationism actually reduce the
liberty of the people in the countries taking this position by limiting
their choices and making the industries within them less competitive through
subsidized rewards to the underperforming industries. 

 

The industries manufacturing in China and selling to the rest of the world
are "extremely" competitive today. They do not really compete between
themselves in China but they do compete in US and Western Europe and through
that competition grow at unprecedented rate. This is clear in all electronic
manufacturing I encountered. The technology they develop through that
competition trickle up into the government sector as well. China space
program has a goal to land on the moon by 2020. They already have beginning
of orbital space station as of this year.

 

>> There is definitely a doubt that position of an "open border capitalist
economy" when it deals with this kind of a "closed border socialist economy"
is beneficial.

Another misconception.  No one is ever being abused, overpowered, or taken
advantage of, when they agree to a mutual exchange on the unhampered market.
Both parties to the trade benefit, or no exchange would take place. 

 

Of course but the real issue is US government willingly agreed or to this
situation with or without long term understanding of consequences to US jobs
and economy. Perhaps when this situation developed in the early 80-s there
was some strategic or political benefits. However, at present it looks like
a huge vacuum cleaner that take US jobs at unprecedented rate without any
resistance from our side.

 

 

Mike Tsinberg

http://keydigital.com

 

From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of David Broberg
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 6:22 PM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: TV Prices Fall, Squeezing Most Makers and Sellers

 

Mike,

 

>> There is no doubt that position a "closed border socialist economy" took
is beneficial to them.

I wish I had time for a more thoughtful reply.  I think this is a common
economic misconception.  Protectionism and isolationism actually reduce the
liberty of the people in the countries taking this position by limiting
their choices and making the industries within them less competitive through
subsidized rewards to the underperforming industries. 

 

>> There is definitely a doubt that position of an "open border capitalist
economy" when it deals with this kind of a "closed border socialist economy"
is beneficial.

Another misconception.  No one is ever being abused, overpowered, or taken
advantage of, when they agree to a mutual exchange on the unhampered market.
Both parties to the trade benefit, or no exchange would take place.  

 

Video explanations here: http://youtu.be/Ei0ch-y7r5c

 

David 

 

From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Mike Tsinberg
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 2:50 PM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: TV Prices Fall, Squeezing Most Makers and Sellers

 

David,

 

I live in New York City and enjoy all the privileges of shopping in Best Buy
with very low TV prices... 

A small correction in your terms:

 

.         An "open border capitalist economy" by definition has unilaterally
decided to sell to anyone and will buy from anyone without restriction - no
trade barriers. Agreed

.        A "closed border socialist economy" by definition has unilaterally
decided to restrict purchases from outside regions by the application of
tariffs, quotas, import duties or some trade agreements but takes advantage
and have unrestricted sales to the regions or countries who have no trade
barriers

 

There is no doubt that position a "closed border socialist economy" took is
beneficial to them. There is definitely a doubt that position of an "open
border capitalist economy" when it deals with this kind of a "closed border
socialist economy" is beneficial.

 

Mike Tsinberg

http://keydigital.com

 

From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of David Broberg
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 3:15 PM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: TV Prices Fall, Squeezing Most Makers and Sellers

 

Mike,

Interesting topic.   First let's be sure we understand your terms. How about
this?

.         An "open border capitalist economy" by definition has unilaterally
decided to sell to anyone and will buy from anyone without restriction - no
trade barriers. 

.         A "closed border socialist economy" by definition has unilaterally
decided to restrict sales to or purchases from outside regions by the
application of tariffs, quotas, import duties or some trade agreements.  

 

In this comparison, the only ones with any loss of liberty will be those who
are restricted. Their liberty to choose how best to use their own property
has been restricted. There is no "siphoning of jobs" away from the
capitalist economy from this action. All exchanges are voluntary and
mutually beneficial.  

 

I assume the town or county where you live has some borders. Suppose the
town council was taken in by the "buy-local" lobbyists and decided to impose
import duties on all goods coming into the town, to limit foreign
competition.  This generally benefits (subsidizes) the local producers in
your town, while restricting you and everyone else in the town's ability to
purchase competing products which might be lower priced or higher quality
produced elsewhere.  

 

For a simple explanation of this topic, see chapter 5 of Jonathan Gullible
by Ken Schoolland.  It is available in over 40 languages! 

http://www.jonathangullible.com/frontpage

 

-David 

(perpetual student of Ludwig von Mises, Murray Rothbard, Friedrich von
Hayek, Albert J Nock, Walter Block, Henry Hazlitt, etc.)

 

From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Mike Tsinberg
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 12:19 PM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: TV Prices Fall, Squeezing Most Makers and Sellers

 

How does an open border capitalist economy should interact with closed
border socialist economy when such socialist economy effectively siphoning
jobs out of capitalist economy putting such capitalist economy in deep
economic crisis and then giving that capitalist economy credit that keeps
that capitalist books solidly out of balance? 

 

Mike Tsinberg

http://keydigital.com

 

From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of dan.grimes@xxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 1:54 PM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: TV Prices Fall, Squeezing Most Makers and Sellers

 

I would like to point out that most of the theory I learned about
maintaining free trade and a capitalist economy states that tariffs are
hindrance to maintaining financial balance, an open supply chain, and
allowance for market changes. It is my opinion that we have been wise to
keep import tariffs to a minimum. It seems to me most expert economists
preach this theory.

I would have to say that I am not an economic expert so I will tend to
follow there advice and maintain that tariffs are fine for Socialist
economies but might have quite an undesirable effect on a capitalist one.

Dan

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