Actually, Tom, I think you might have confused how I feel about their inEFFective positions with what I feel about them. I hope that distinction isn't too subtle to parse. And, I can see how you might think that they're the most worthy recipient of donations, since they feed the starving, etc. But, it does take three or more to define a pack, doesn't it? John Willkie -----Original Message----- >From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx> >Sent: Jun 30, 2008 10:11 PM >To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >Subject: [opendtv] Re: Someone else's ramblings on copy protection > >For about 7 years now I have been publishing open source video filters >on my web page and elsewhere, suggesting any donations value go to the >EFF. They are a useful organization performing a necessary function. > >Sorry you don't like them. > >- Tom > >PS - see <www.eff.org> > >John Willkie wrote: >> could it be that fools travel in packs? I wonder how many blogs you had to >> scan to find a second foolish opinion. >> >> Also, I said about a week ago that EFF traveled along with the "social >> contract." They have little else, although apparently they also engage in >> conspiracy fantasies from time to time. >> >> Do you think (I know EFF cares not about it) that there might be an IPR >> issue, like, say the patents that Echostar has been adjudged to infringe in >> it's initial PVR system, that prevents people from providing this >> capability? Tivo has some, Replay Networks others, and I'm sure there are >> plenty of others that are needed. >> >> Why don't you indemnify these CE companies? Then, you can see what they >> deliver without a worry about the consequences of being liable for >> infringement of IPR. >> >> The limb was never able to bear your weight. But, you of course, never make >> a mistake, and never have conceded a single error. So, you double down ... >> >> John Willkie >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Albert Manfredi <albert.e.manfredi@xxxxxxxxxx> >>> Sent: Jun 30, 2008 8:59 PM >>> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Subject: [opendtv] Someone else's ramblings on copy protection >>> >>> >>> http://www.toad.com/gnu/whatswrong.html >>> >>> This John Gilmore blog, or e-mail, from back in 2001, updated for links in >>> 2005, is a good read. He makes many points about about "what's wrong with >>> ..." These are his opinions, of course. >>> >>> The points I find most compelling are not those at all. Instead, they are >>> these two, specifically: >>> >>> "Pioneer New Media Technologies, who builds the recently announced >>> recordable DVD drive for Apple, says 'The major consumer applications for >>> recordable DVD will be home movie editing and storage and digital photo >>> storage'. They carefully don't say 'time-shifting TV programs, or recording >>> streaming Internet videos', because the manufacturers and the distribution >>> companies are in cahoots to make sure that that capability never reaches >>> the market. Even though it's 100% legal to do so, under the Supreme Court's >>> Betamax decision." >>> >>> Looks like I'm not the only one who wonders about who the CE manufacturers >>> are most afraid of, eh? >>> >>> Then this: >>> >>> "What is wrong is when companies who make copy-protecting products don't >>> disclose the restrictions to the consumers. Like Apple's recent happy-happy >>> web pages on their new DVD-writing drive, announced this month >>> (http://www.apple.com/idvd/). It's full of glowing info about how you can >>> write DVDs based on your own DV movie recordings, etc. What it quietly >>> neglects to say is that you can't use it to copy or time-shift or record >>> any audio or video copyrighted by major companies. Even if you have the >>> legal right to do so, the technology will prevent you." >>> >>> [ ... ] >>> >>> "It isn't just Apple who is misleading the consumer; it's epidemic." >>> >>> Yup. He describes unnecessarily crippled products, whose limitations are >>> not disclosed. Wow, how unique. Although as far as DVDRs (or PVRs) go >>> anyway, perhaps things are not as bad now as they were when these devices >>> were still analog only. Maybe just temporarily, who knows. >>> >>> John Gilmore is a co-founder of Electronic Frontier Foundation. >>> >>> Bert >>> >>> ------------------------------------------- >>> http://www.eff.org/about/board >>> >>> John Gilmore >>> >>> Co-Founder, Board Member, entrepreneur; technologistgnu@xxxxxxx John >>> Gilmore is an entrepreneur and civil libertarian. He was an early employee >>> of Sun Microsystems, early open source author, and co-created Cygnus >>> Solutions, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the Cypherpunks, the DES >>> Cracker, and the Internet's "alt" newsgroups. He's spent 30 years doing >>> programming, hardware and software design, management, philosophy, >>> philanthropy, and investment. Along with being a board member of EFF, he is >>> also on the Board of the Usenix Association, CodeWeavers, and ReQuest. He's >>> trying to get people to think more about the society they are building. His >>> advocacy on drug policy aims to reduce the immense harm caused by current >>> attempts to control the mental states of free citizens. His advocacy on >>> encryption policy aims to improve public understanding of this fundamental >>> technology for privacy and accountability in open societies. >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Watch “Cause Effect,” a show about real people making a real difference. >>> Learn more. >>> http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: >>> >>> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at >>> FreeLists.org >>> >>> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word >>> unsubscribe in the subject line. >>> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: >> >> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at >> FreeLists.org >> >> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word >> unsubscribe in the subject line. >> >> > >-- >Tom Barry trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: > >- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at >FreeLists.org > >- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word >unsubscribe in the subject line. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.