[opendtv] So Much for HDTV - Olympics
- From: Jay Cordova <arteffects@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 13:25:36 -0400
I¹ve been watching the Olympics every night OTA from local affil WXIA
(Atlanta). It looks stunningly good -- except when there is movement. It¹s
very unfortunate that the athletes are prone to movement during the Games!
(WXIA broadcasts an SD subchannel with weather, so there¹s bit robbery from
the Games.)
Worst offenders causing much macroblocking:
* NBC¹s transition, which occurs very frequently (pretty heavy
macro-blocking every time, rings especially)
* Divers doing three-and-a-halfs last night; extreme macro-blocking
(horrible)
* Tumbling where twists are involved; extreme macro-blocking (horrible)
* Any swimming that creates excess splashing (freestyle and butterfly pretty
bad)
* Runners covered by the traveling camera on sideline track (arm movement +
camera movement = bad blocking)
The list for me is much longer, but that¹s a good sampling of what I¹ve been
seeing OTA.
I am very much disappointed with the Olympics in HD. Some of it is so bad
that I¹m at a loss for words. Static shots and shots with low movement do
look stunningly good. 2X and 3X slo-mo replays of high motion diving and
tumbling have significantly reduced, but still pretty severe,
macro-blocking.
For me, it¹s still hard to believe that this is what we¹ve ended up with and
will be saddled with as our ³broadcast quality² high definition standard.
Arrrgh to the nth degree.
WXIA¹s SD analog broadcast (OTA, rotor roof antenna) looks very clear, but
there is still macro-blocking. I¹d say it¹s less than half as severe as the
HD blocking. I can see more detail in analog SD during the high movement
dives, tumbling and such no doubt about it. (I¹m guessing the analog
broadcast is separately derived from the 42mps network feed, thus less
artifacts?) I switch to SD for some events or portions of events. The kids
see the blocking and call it ³the junk in the picture². I know some people
who think it ³looks great² and seem oblivious to the artifacts.
I haven¹t seen the local Comcast HD of the Games on WXIA, but I¹m guessing
it¹s got to be worse that what I see on OTA, correct? I¹m guessing no way
Comcast carries the full 15mbps (a guess) that XIA is transmitting, but I do
not know. What are you guys seeing from cable providers and what are your
observations if you are able to compare cable HD to OTA HD? The Comcast
regular SD picture looks pretty darned bad lots worse than SD OTA of
course.
All in all, a real disappointment, as the detail I¹d like to see the most of
has the most severe macro-blocking. I wish I could see what the network feed
to the affiliates looks like on a good hi-def CRT. Have any of you seen
that?
I¹ll bet everything looks absolutely spectacular to the folks doing the
switching over in China seeing the cleanest picture available.
Love the Thompson slo-mo cameras in action, despite the artifacts. They sure
add a lot to the broadcasts.
On 8/19/08 2:45 PM, "dan.grimes@xxxxxxxx" <dan.grimes@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure of the distribution chain for NBC/KVBC via the Cox-LV analog
> tier, but it is full of artifacts. I thought they were using the OTA signal
> and putting it to NTSC before modulating it and sending it over fiber to the
> main distribution points. But they may have changed the way they do this,
> using digital for the hauls to the hubs and going analog from there.
>
> But for the analog picture, there is little detail on the water and mainly a
> blur, especially around the splashing swimmers. The ball disappears on the
> wide shot when someone throws for the goal. It is all clearly compression
> artifacts.
>
> I'm not at home when it is on to see what it looks like on the OTA STB (I
> think this is what you are referring to as the "cheese-box"). We just watch
> some of it while eating lunch hear at work.
>
> As far as other Olympic events on at night received on the OTA STB via
> composite video to an NTSC monitor, it looks pretty good.
>
> Dan
>
>
>
> "John Willkie" <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 08/19/2008 11:30 AM
> Please respond to
> opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To
> <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> cc
> Subject
> [opendtv] Re: [Fwd: RE: [oldvtrs] So Much for HDTV]
>
>
>
>
> Dan;
>
> My mother has been watching the Olympics on her new hdtv set. She sees the
> ball in water polo, and she doesn¹t see artifacts, and she has 16:9 video.
> Great, minimalist graphics, by the way. And, she gets her tv from cable.
>
> I see no breakups, no swizzles, and no artifacts.
>
> I think the whining about this Athens, Torino and Sydney were different
> matters has to do with sub-optimal encoding by some NBC stations, and people
> expecting perfection from cheese boxes or cable firms.
>
> John Willkie
>
>
>
>
>
> De: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] En
> nombre de dan.grimes@xxxxxxxx
> Enviado el: Tuesday, August 19, 2008 10:56 AM
> Para: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Asunto: [opendtv] Re: [Fwd: RE: [oldvtrs] So Much for HDTV]
>
>
> Craig:
>
> "Then again, we may be too critical. The AVERAGE CONSUMER probably does not
> care, or even see some of this crap."
>
>
> I think the consumer is noticing, but there isn't any feedback to let the
> producers know. I have heard from several non-technical friends that they
> notice artifacts (they use different terms) in some of the Olympic coverage.
>
> And another just recently changed from cable to DBS and says he was surprised
> that video could look that much better.
>
> Speaking of the Olympic coverage and artifacts, have you watched water polo?
> The ball actually disappears.
>
> Dan
>
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