(resent because I screwed up and sent it to the old Topica list.) Sorry if anybody "resents" it. While more than a few members of this list (largely many of the lurkers I have encountered in the wild) know much more about this subject than I, many of list members are still susceptible to spin on the subject of signal levels, signal contours and the broader subject of probability. First, there is NO WAY TO PREDICT SIGNAL LEVELS. Never has been, never will be, if you ask me. There are time-honored ways to measure the signal level at a particular point on the planet (or above or below it) at a particular point in time. One can log or chart that signal level. But, there's no way -- even with the most modern of systems -- to predict with any certainty, what the signal level will be the next second, the next week, or the next moment. What the FCC and other regulators have done is to state the desired transmitted signal level for a particular frequency band, and service areas of a station. The strongest signal contour is the city-grade signal contour. Under the rules, stations need to provide a city-grade signal over all portions of their city of license. The second signal contour of note is the Grade A contour, which is a few dB below the city grade signal, and then the grade B contour. Unfortunately, the idiots that don't like the current satellite white area situation want to change all the engineering for TV stations because they are not happy with the fact that FCC uses the grade B signal level to determine where people cannot receive over the air signals. Largely, their arguments -- proffered by EchoStar -- are totally full of unmitigated bullshit. The FCC permits people to do real-world signal measurements (a friend of mine has done this for EchoStar, but his results are thrown out by EchoStar if he finds a usable signal where EchoStar wants none to be found.) However, my friend's signal strength meter is not industrial grade, and has never been externally calibrated. This is the quality of Echo Star's engineering. The FCC also permits viewers to provide alternative signal measurement analysis. Unfortunately for EchoStar, these are expensive, so expensive that only if the installation is a multiple dwelling unit one, is it likely to be done. OF COURSE PEOPLE HAVE TROUBLE WITH the R-6602 Longley-Rice model. The model is just that, and since the model was adopted fifty or more years ago, we have achieved much advances in electronics that make reception easier. The model does not reflect that. It's a reference model. Also, the model does not predict absolute or relative signal level. Indeed, the measurements (for service area) are called F(50,50). They predict the median signal level at a fixed point, given no interfering terrain. The criteria are quite clear: the probability of a certain signal level at 50 percent of the receiving locations at that point, 50 percent of the time. There are even other ways to cut the numbers, to find the highest signal level one can expect at that point f(90,10) or even the interference contours f(10,90). The methodology used to measure -- for proof of performance purposes -- a station's signal level at fixed points should also be pointed out. The measurement truck extends a mast 30 feet about ground level. Then, the truck travels very slowly a fixed distance (I seem to remember it being 200 feet on the level road, taking 50 measurements evenly spaced by time and distance. The result for that "point" is then averaged. The differences between the minima and maxima at that point can be quite wide: only the average is reported. Since it's probability, of course one can expect at some points in time the signal will be much higher, at other times, there might be no signal. Lack of signal is the issue, of course. Only idiots expect the signal to be as unwaveringly usable at the fringes of a station's coverage area as they are at the transmitter site. Until early ATSC receivers came on the market, nobody had ever complained about too high of signal levels. So, when I hear people saying that the R-6602 model needs to be thrown out because they found a higher reading than predicted at their point, I ask them how many measurements they took, over how long a time, and what the mimima and maxima were. When they (universally) tell me that they only took one measurement, at one time, I tell them that's irrelevant and they offer nothing more than noise. Of course, those are the VERY SAME anecdotes that EchoStar tries to use (unsuccessfully in court, where their experts are no longer qualified as expert witnesses) to get access by operation of law to content that they haven't even tried to negotiate with rightful licensees for access to. That's just the kind of junk science that have been eliminated (under the Merrill-Dow decision by the Supreme Court) in courts. That doesn't mean that one cant try in Congress to get the anecdotal tail to wag the engineering dog. John Willkie ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.