[opendtv] Re: Rising to the occasion ...
- From: "John Shutt" <shuttj@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2007 18:09:01 -0500
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Willkie" <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Here's what struck me in a post from John today:
"Therefore, all SD programming is 4:3 exclusively."
Pitty that all of what I wrote didn't strike you, John. To refresh your
memory I also wrote:
"Therefore, even though anamorphic 16:9 is an ATSC SD format, it is
rarely if ever used, and will continue to remain so even as more 16:9 sets
are sold."
And
"In the US, 16:9 will forever remain the exclusive domain of HD."
Which again, native 16:9 video formats are exclusively the domain of HD.
Emphasis on the "native," John, and your plethera of screen captures today
reinforced my point to the nth degree. Every single stream was a 4:3
stream, not a single one was a 704x480i 16:9 aspect ratio stream.
704X480I is not an HDTV format,
I agree. 704x480i is not an HDTV format. Never once did I even come close
to asserting that it was.
Nor is it being used as a native widescreen format. It is being used as a
4x3 format, with letterboxing of the material as appropriate.
and I'm not aware of any ATSC or
ATSC-referenced specification that promulgates the use of the term
"Enhanced
Definition" or ED.
Not all common industry terms are codified in ATSC specifications. However
a simple Google search on EDTV will alay your fears by showing that it is
indeed a CEA term.
I believe I have accurately quoted John Shutt, and unless provided with a
reference to an ATSC or ATSC-cited MPEG specification to the contrary, I
see
HDTV, SDTV, and things that are less than SDTV.
You did not even come close to accurately quoting me, John. But you were
spot on in proving my point with your posted sample of transport streams.
I believe the statement directly above is incontrovertible.
I cannot refute what you perceive, John.
So, all I need to disprove both of these is to show actual stream captures
that are 1) displayed in 16:9 and 2) use a format that doesn't qualify as
HDTV.
Actually, all you need to show are broadcasters who currently present
programming in 704x480i30 in native 16:9, not letterboxed 16:9 within a 4:3
frame.
And since I did not say there wouldn't be the odd exception, you should be
able to demonstrate several such broadcasters. You did a fine job with
demonstrating the opposite today with your very comprehensive list of 4:3 SD
streams.
How's this? http://www.etherguidesystems.com/demos/default.aspx
Your server is currently not responding. I'll try back later.
And, I have previously conceded you were right about something - in my
subject area, John. I try to deal in facts, and I only try to attain
perfection, I never have claimed to have achieved it.
In that case, John, you made an assertion that I refuted. In this case, you
have utterly mischaracterized my position then proceeded to show where I was
"wrong," and ironically you proved my assertion while trying to do so.
I never mind being corrected by you, John, when it's warranted. You've done
so many times in the past. So have others. That is how I learn.
However, in this case you cannot refute my assertion that there are few if
any broadcasters in the United States who are using 704x480i29.97 in a
native 16:9 video format. Most, if not all, broadcasters, my own station
included, are instead broadcasting 7-4x480i29.97 in a native 4:3 format,
with widescreen material letterboxed as appropriate.
Pending examination of your link to Etherguidesystems, you have not shown
one single broadcaster using 704x480i29.97 (because you wish to be soooo
precise) in a 16:9 aspect ratio. Therefore my assertion stands.
Perhaps I threw you off when I said "720p" as a shorthand for the
1280x720p59.94 format that got you off on some weird "720x480" tangent.
Perhaps you saw the "720" and assumed I meant 720x480, not realizing that
720p is a common shorthand for 1280x720p59.94. I don't know, as your though
processes are privy only to yourself. However, I never uttered 720x480, you
did.
Cheers,
John
P.S., your server woke up, and what awaited me was two TS reader screen
captures. The first is meaningless to our discussion, but the second has
the video format information for transport stream pid 161 highlighted.
As Gomer Pyle would say: Surprise, surprise, surprise! Framerate 29.97
Aspect Ratio 4:3.
Another one to reinforce my point, John. Thank you for yet another
confirmation that I was correct in my original assertion.
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