[opendtv] Re: Public M/H information

  • From: "John Willkie" <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 16:09:29 -0800

Gee, you seem to miss the point that 1) the only stations doing i-tunes
tagging are music stations, and 2) there is very little music content on
over-the-air television, and 3) at least one of the major networks is now
promoting the incidental music on their shows, and linking to the company
web site were one can get the titles of music heard within the show and buy

Since the networks (or is it just CBS?) are also offering their shows on DVD
in on-air announcments, they have little incentive to provide a link to a
competitor's (Apple's iTunes store) vending machine.  And, Apple doesn't
offer tv programs in formats as good as BluRay, nor in the format that at
least two of the networks consider to be HDTV.

Radio <> TV.  Music <> Tv programs.

As I continue to say, Apple can play catch-up in this area.  NRT
(non-real-time) ATSC m/h transmissions would seem to be a direct competitor
to the iTunes store.

There is an angle for Apple to play.  ATSC M/H 1.0 provides for "service
protection" with "content protection" to be considered, if at all, later.
Microsoft (an ATSC member) has a widely-adopted, rather open, WMDRM system
that can be adapted to support ATSC M/H 1.0 +; Apple has a widely-used,
closed system.  And, there are other solutions out there.  

I imagine that some content owners (like sports leagues) will be more
interested than now when their content can be protected in devices.  I
repeat; Apple can play catch-up.

They can catch up with the LG, Samsung and Kenwood ATSC M/H receivers that
will be shown a CES on January 8, 2009.  With others to follow.  Some also
have the capability to receive other mobile broadcasts.

And, let me mention that ATSC M/H 1.0 will have the capability to provide
for a reverse/response channel.  It's and optional, but important feature,
built into the first version of the standard.  Transactions and other forms
of interactions are possible in basic receivers.

John Willkie

-----Mensaje original-----
De: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] En
nombre de Craig Birkmaier
Enviado el: Monday, December 22, 2008 7:03 AM
Para: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Asunto: [opendtv] Re: Public M/H information

At 11:29 AM -0800 12/21/08, John Willkie wrote:
>At the last NAB, LG, Samsung and Audiovox showed ATSC m/h prototype
>receivers.  It looks like the patent disclosure statements for A/153 aren't
>public, but each of the above have significant included patents.

Yes, I saw all of these and wrote about them.

>Of course, it's 'kind of foolish' at this point to say that anybody is
>putting M/H into phones since they have to embed their stuff into silicon,
>and we don't have even a publicly-available candidate standard, but that
>should change within a few weeks.

It is foolish to say that they will put these into phones, as no 
carrier in the U.S. has even shown much interest in the M/H standard. 
As I said, it will fall upon the broadcasters and CE companies to 
build the market for the service - if it is successful then, and only 
then, is it likely that the telcos might sell phones that support M/H.

>Boy, oh, boy do you go out on a limb continuously to fan Apple.  "i-tunes"
>tagging in non-iPods and iPhones is an example of Apple playing in the HD
>radio space?  One of the reasons I won't consider an iPod or iPhone is
>because neither permits me to use radio, and I would like to carry fewer
>portable devices, not more.  (I usually carry an am/fm radio.)

iTunes Tagging is a feature built into MANY HD Radios that ALSO 
include support for the connection of an iPod:


This is the direct result of Apple working with manufacturers of HD 
radios to create and support a feature that is viewed as being 
valuable to the consumer, thus enhancing the overall HD radio 
experience. This feature is also heavily advertised in the current HD 
radio campaign.

You are among a significant population of end users who would like to 
have radio capabilities included with an iPod - I would note that 
this is one area where the Zune has an advantage over the iPod.

There are third party radio adapters for the iPod, but the main focus 
to date has been to use an iPod as an accessory to a car radio or a 
radio/speaker system with an iPod dock.


There has been considerable speculation that Apple will add an HD 
radio tuner to future iPods, but nothing has appeared to date.

>I can safely say that it is quite unlikely that M/H will offer much in the
>way of useable bits for iPods or iPhones -- like content tagging -- absent
>one or the other offering -- say -- an ATSC m/h reception capability.

It is also safe to say that iTunes tagging is built upon the metadata 
that broadcasters provide as part of the HD radio service. Apple did 
not need to get broadcasters to add a feature to support the iPod, 
they worked with CE manufacturers to exploit a standard feature of 
the service. This can easily be done, if broadcasters provide useful 
bits in the M/H service, beyond the elementary audio and video 

>I don't see Apple listed as an ATSC member http://www.atsc.org/members/ but
>Microsoft, MobiTv, Samsung, LG, Qualcomm, and many others are so listed.

i don't see these companies having significant market share in 
mobile/hand held devices, and it is certainly a stretch to believe 
that supporting M/H is going to change this marketplace reality.

>Apple is free to play catch-up.  If they start now, they can have their
>in full-swing by next Christmas, when many of the others will be at a fever


With who or what other than themselves?

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