BTW - This is a derivation of the Sand Video chip that was announced and demonstrated a year ago (Sand was then subsequently purchased by Broadcom). -----Original Message----- From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tom McMahon Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:16 PM To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [opendtv] Re: Pros/Cons of DSP processor based MPEG software decoder or hardware based MPEG decoder Since this thread is still ongoing here's an example (they also mention Conexant's in the article): Broadcom H.264 decoders shipping in Q1 By Cliff Roth EE Times December 23, 2004 (3:30 PM EST) NEW YORK - Shortly after Conexant Systems announced it would ship H.264 HDTV decoder silicon by the second quarter of 2005, Broadcom said it will ship its BCM7411 decoder during the first quarter. Broadcom (Irvine, Calif.) claims to be "the first company to deliver complete solutions that support new emerging audio and video consumer applications," said Daniel Marotta, group vice president of its Broadband Communications Group, in an announcement. Applications for the chip include high-definition DVD players, next-generation satellite and cable set-top boxes, personal video recording (PVR) products and IP set tops. Broadcom said the BCM7411 is the first decoder to support the H.264 high-profile specification, which includes advanced compression tools for high-definition video such as 8 x 8 transforms and dynamic quantization matrices. It can operate as a single-channel HD decoder, or as a dual-channel standard-definition decoder. It also decodes MPEG-1 and -2 video. Audio formats include MPEG-4 high efficiency AAC (also known as AAC+), MPEG-4 AAC, Dolby Digital Plus (Enhanced AC3), Dolby Digital (AC3), MPEG-1 Layer I, II, and III (MP3) and pulse code modulation. A built-in video post processor supports horizontal and vertical scaling, deinterlacing, cropping, 3:2 pull-down and on-screen display functions. Broadcom said it is currently shipping the BCM7411 in sample quantities. The BCM7411 will compete with Conexant's CX2418X family of H.264 HD decoders, announced last month, and shipping second quarter. STMicroelectronics and Sigma Designs are also reportedly providing H.264 decoders in sample quantities. One outstanding issue for all these chip makers is what will happen later in 2005 when MPEG and the ITU ratify Microsoft's competing flavor of MPEG-4, called VC-1. Whether Microsoft's VC-1 codec provides any technical advantages over MPEG-4 AVC remains to be seen. Currently, its main advantage appears to be compatibility with the Windows Media 9 format, currently used primarily for streaming video over the Internet. H.264/MPEG-4 AVC typically provides a two- to three-fold efficiency in data compression, compared with MPEG-2, according to Broadcom, and is thus ideally suited to applications like carrying HD television on cable and satellite television, where network operators can squeeze more channels into a given bandwidth. MPEG-2 is currently used in DVDs, and for digital cable and satellite. -----Original Message----- From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Donald Koeleman Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 10:46 AM To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [opendtv] Re: Pros/Cons of DSP processor based MPEG software decoder or hardware based MPEG decoder Prashant, see inline comments: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Prashant Desai" <prashant.desai@xxxxxxxxxx> To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 7:15 PM Subject: [opendtv] Re: Pros/Cons of DSP processor based MPEG software decoder or hardware based MPEG decoder Hi Ralph /Donald thanks a lot to both of you do you mean that license cost for MPEG-4 can be avoided or it's not required to pay the license cost for MPEG-4 if it's implemented using a software and DSP processor ? and one has to pay the license cost only if it's implemented on chip by hardware ? D: No, licenses are for patented technology essential for complying with the standard. So, if you want to build or sell a compliant product, you'll have to pay, or risk getting into patent infringement suits. btw , what typically is the license cost that one has to pay for MPEG-4 ? any pointers from where i can get this information ? D: www.mpegla.com i actually wanted to understanding the performance etc trade offs that one needs to consider while choosing either software/DSP processor based decoder implementation or chip/hardware based implementation of MPEG-4 .......any inputs for the same would be highely appretiated D: For business and technical reasons, to my knowledge, no-one has sofar build a hardware implementation of H.264 or WMx/ I am sure Rob, or any of the other MPEGIF people will jump in to tell you more about the benefits of implementing MPEG 4;-). Donald warm regards , Prashant Desai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph P. Manfredo" <rmanfredo@xxxxxxxx> To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 10:52 PM Subject: [opendtv] Re: Pros/Cons of DSP processor based MPEG software decoder or hardware based MPEG decoder > Donald: > > Donald: > > That is a good and quick response to the question. However, I believe you > left out a couple of very important reasons as to the why the H.264 has not > been implemented in chip form yet. One has to do with the time it takes to > go from standard release to a released chip. That is why the software > versions are out now I believe. Second and I believe is more important is > the cost to deliver and view a program that is MPEG-4 H.264 compliant due to > the total licensing costs. These costs are a significant factor I believe > and MPEG-LA and their outrageous licensing scheme may kill MPEG-4. I don't > believe consumers in general will accept the higher costs to watch a MPEG-4 > program vs. an MPEG-2 program. This of course is my opinion, but I am part > of a next generation entertainment system standards committee, and we are > seriously considering scrapping MPEG-4 due to the high licensing costs to > view a program. These costs presently outweigh the advantage saved by > storage requirements as disc drive costs are coming down and capacity is > going up and this is a one time cost. > > Ralph > > Ralph P. Manfredo > President & CEO > > rmanfredo@xxxxxxxx > > ************************************************************************ > BroadBand Networks Corporation > 2530 Berryessa Road, No. 237 > San Jose, CA 95050 > > Phone: 408.988.2060 > Fax: 408.988.2188 > > www.bbnc.com > > Leaders in MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 video over ATM and IP Networks > ************************************************************************ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On > Behalf Of Donald Koeleman > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 5:35 AM > To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [opendtv] Re: Pros/Cons of DSP processor based MPEG software > decoder or hardware based MPEG decoder > > MPEG 2 MP@ML decoder chips are generaly all hardware, the technology on > these chips has matured over the past decade and there is no real need to > update the decoding capabilities after the box leaves the factory. MPEG 4 > Main profile standard definition decoders are available in hardware, however > anything newer or higher spec, like H.264 or WM9/VC1 uses software codecs. > Several reasons, largely to do with economies of scale, as numbers are still > relatively small. Codecs are still under development, so generations of > capability sets replace eachother quite rapidly, so no time to design and > build a hardware implementation and recoup cost. The market is still split > between MPEG and Microsoft, and large operators are still making up their > minds as wich platform to choose and current service providers do not want > to be locked in right at the start of the development of this technology. > > Donald > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Prashant Desai" <prashant.desai@xxxxxxxxxx> > To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:25 PM > Subject: [opendtv] Pros/Cons of DSP processor based MPEG software decoder or > hardware based MPEG decoder > > > Hello All > i am new to this digital content would , i would like to know and > understand the Pros/Cons of different methods of implementation of the > MPEG -4 , MPEG-2 decoder is better compared to the other . > > Based on my current understanding there are two ways by which the MPEG-4 > /MPEG-2 decoder's can be implemented the first method is using a combo of > DSP processor and software implementation of MPEG-4/2 decoder whereas the > other is to implement the full hardware based MPEG-4/2 decoder , i think > it's always better to have 100% hardware based > decoder from performance point of view , i dont know what are the advantages > of using a software based MPEG-4/2 decoder on the top of DSP processor > .......... > > i would be really grateful if you guys can provide your opinions and imputs > in this regard > > warm regards, > Prashant Desai > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: > > - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at > FreeLists.org > > - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word > unsubscribe in the subject line. > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: > > - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org > > - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.