[opendtv] Re: Olympics picture quality
- From: Jay Antzakas <tvjay@xxxxxxx>
- To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 23:47:15 -0400
I think all "packaging" is done in Athens. Replays, slomo, graphics. The
rings transition appears sometimes more compressed than others. My guess is
that the feed from Athens is bandwidth challenged.
I don't think the spots/promos are from Athens, and those look very good.
Finally, a new Sony spot (for their version of the iPod) that looks
excellent. NBC promos for Hawaii, LAX and Medical Investigation also look
very good.
I should also note that WXIA DT transmits two channels. 11.1 is the regular
programming and 11.2 is NBC HD all the time.
Jay Antzakas
On 8/19/04 11:00 PM, "Terry Harvey" <tjharvey@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> But are the NBC commercial inserts coming from Athens?
>
> It seems to me that the MPEG-2 video is going through three encode-decode
> cycles:
>
> Encode Athens, decode/encode New York, decode/encode affiliate, decode
> consumer.
>
> Even at two cycles at 45Mb/s coupled with an 18Mb/s cycle there will be
> sufficient loss to give MPEG blocking when there is sufficient motion in
> the picture (eg. swinging Olympic logo).
>
> I don't think NBC New York is passing the video through from Athens without
> decoding.
>
> Terry Harvey
>
>
>
> At 01:56 PM 8/19/2004 -0700, John Willkie wrote:
>> During the Olympics, NBC is being run out of Athens. Indeed, in the case of
>> o&o's, the local station is being switched out of Athens.
>>
>> All the nets use 45Mb/sec contribution feeds, save Fox (when their stream
>> switcher goes on line) which will be using 19.29 Mb/sec transmission feed to
>> affiliates.
>>
>> John Willkie
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of tjharvey@xxxxxxx
>> Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 10:58 AM
>> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [opendtv] Re: Olympics picture quality
>>
>>
>> Doug,
>>
>> I made mention of this last Sunday. I understand the pictures are incoming
>> to NBC affiliates at DS3 rate of 45Mb/s, so the origination encoding from
>> New York, or wherever else it is originating from in the US is sending it
>> out at 45Mb/s. Affiliates decode and re-encode to 18Mb/s for transmission
>> and so there is a generational loss but it should not be all that bad.
>>
>> My question is how is NBC receiving it at New York? I suspect a third decode
>> is occurring before its US distribution to insert commercials. Or else is
>> the encode from Athens at a different rate from NBC's DS-3 distribution rate
>> which necessitates a third decode/ re-encode cycle?
>>
>> Anyhow, I see the artifacts too. In future the viewer is regularly going to
>> have to put up with this as the broadcast 'bean-counters' force limited
>> bandwidth. So just live with it and treat it as an interesting special
>> effect.
>>
>> Terry Harvey
>>>
>>> From: Doug McDonald <mcdonald@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Date: 2004/08/19 Thu PM 01:03:46 EDT
>>> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [opendtv] Olympics picture quality
>>>
>>> Somebody here may well be able to answer my question
>>> on the picture quality of the HD Olympics.
>>>
>>> Sinclair only turned on their true HD here for the
>>> Olympics ... it was ready days earlier, but they absolutely
>>> refused to let us see some regular HD programming before the
>>> Olympics, so that's all I have seen.
>>>
>>> For static pictures, the quality (1080i) is certainly OK.
>>> There seems to be zero detail that my 720p TV can't handle:
>>> no change when I adjust the "sharpness" control, except for the
>>> local bug, and at CC It saw no more detail on 1080i sets, including
>>> the Sony XBR 950 set for "pro" mode, but it looks fine.
>>>
>>> However, when fast motion starts, such as the flying rings logo
>>> they use for replays, all Hell breaks loose: the logo itself
>>> breaks up into blocks, and is fuzzy to boot. I see no problem
>>> with flying logos on MNF (720p). When they show from-above
>>> distant shots of swimmers, the foam breaks up into total pixelated
>>> mud.
>>>
>>> When they show fast gymnastics, when they pan to follow a running
>>> gymnast, the background seems to move smoothly, so at least that
>>> part of the 50i->60i conversion is passable. BUT ... when the
>>> gymnasts have wailing arms or legs ... they actually disappear
>>> entirely! No, they don't get blurry ... there is no blur, just
>>> background behind where they should be. Well sometimes there is
>>> some faint trace or blurry stuff in front of the background,
>>> but not much.
>>>
>>> Clearly the broken up flying logos is a local encoder issue, but
>>> what about the foam breakup and the missing arms? Is this local,
>>> or due to the 50->60 problem? Has any of you people seen what the
>>> un-19.3'd network feed looks like?
>>>
>>> Overall I would say that both swimming and gymnastics has moments
>>> of simply unacceptably bad pictures.
>>>
>>> Mark Aitken: are you sure that the WICD people have got their
>>> encoder set right? Are you using the same brand of encoders
>>> at all your 1080i stations?
>>>
>>> Doug McDonald
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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