[opendtv] Re: Kennard and Powell to the rescue
- From: "Bob Miller" <robmxa@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:19:08 -0500
Well first it only would qualify if they used MPEG2 by current law
right? Then as I understand it all legacy receivers could receive the
signal but not take advantage of the better reception of M/H. Of
course M/H with 1/4 and MPEG2 would definitely kill HD on the 8-VSB
side. I think you agree with that.
What a bastardized system that would be.
Still the worst of all possible DTV worlds.
If they allowed M/H with MPEG4 then they are breaking the rules and
making all legacy receivers obsolete. At that point we, again, might
as well consider all modulations and codecs. I wouldn't mind if an
advanced version of 8-VSB won that contest.
As far as I am concerned they are breaking the "spirit" of the rules
with M/H if it is used with MPEG4 already.
As far as broadcasters weathering the storm of changing modulations,
it is a toss up IMO, can they weather the storm of NOT changing
modulations is the question.
If broadcasters banded together and offered a decent combination of
programming that could compete with cable in a given market, using say
DVB-T2 and the latest codec set to work mobile and fixed the public
would not see this as another uninteresting OTA deadend but a brand
new idea that made sense and could save them some money.
There are not that many who are paying that much attention to OTA
today. And those who are are not the prime demographic IMO.
I know I would like to see an offering of say 20 free OTA DTV channels
and an option of 30 more via subscription and maybe a PPV option. If I
don't get something like that I know my cable or FIOS days are
numbered anyway. Just got FIOS here on Roosevelt Island in my building
but am holding off on the change since for some reason they don't have
MSNBC. Seems CableVision has a monopoly on that channel here.
In any case Verizon has not responded to a number of calls on the
subject which reminds me how bad Verizon service can be. Reason enough
to delay.
Bob Miller
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:32 PM, John Willkie <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> What is this, an annual unthinking pronouncement of yours? You've been
> predicting such radical changes for about 9 years, and none has happened.
> It certainly won't happen on your suggestion.
>
> If the modulation scheme doesn't work well enough, a new modulation scheme
> won't replace 8-vsb; television will just die, becoming non-existent in a
> media world with many new choices.
>
> Nobody wants to replace the embedded base of receivers, Bob. No broadcaster
> will want to signal that receivers need to be replaced, since broadcasters
> will be blamed for the message and cost of such replacement.
>
> However, there is some room for maneuvering. Imagine, for example, if
> error-free ATSC M/H transmissions could qualify as the free, SDTV-equivalent
> transmissions required under the Act. I don't want to think too much about
> what would have to come about to make this something broadcasters and their
> viewers desired, but it is within the realm of possibility. However, such a
> position would need to be nuanced; it obsoletes the billions of dollars that
> consumers have spent on digital television sets and stbs.
>
> John Willkie
>
>
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] En
> nombre de Bob Miller
> Enviado el: Monday, January 12, 2009 9:45 AM
> Para: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Asunto: [opendtv] Re: Kennard and Powell to the rescue
>
> Within one year of the transition broadcasters themselves will be
> asking for a better modulation.
>
> Bob Miller
>
> On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:14 AM, Manfredi, Albert E
> <albert.e.manfredi@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> Tom Barry wrote:
>>
>>> To me it seems equally likely because of 8vsb multipath that
>>> you will need 1/4 rate FEC instead of 1/2 rate. And that more
>>> or less delivers only half the usable payload, pretty much
>>> eliminating even mobile AVC video if you started with only 1
>>> mbps out of an ATSC stream.
>>
>> It would be nice to have the C/N margin requirements for the different
>> modes spelled out in A/153, however I would like to point out that some
>> applications of M/H could have more to do with compensating for lower
>> transmit power than more multipath, depending how it gets put to use.
>>
>> John Shutt complained years ago that there's no way for a broadcaster to
>> reach its audience when it needs to cut its power for maintenance
>> reasons. This could be a way, and 1/2 rate would likely be just fine for
>> this application.
>>
>> Anyway, Part 2, Table 6.1, says that if you want 1/4 rate for the entire
>> robust stream, you need to take 1.8 Mb/s of the 19.39 Mb/s in order to
>> provide one 312 Kb/s robust channel. That's still not unreasonable.
>>
>> Or, if you insist on taking 0.917 Mb/s only from the 19.39 Mb/s, 154.6
>> Mb/s of 1/4 rate robust stream. That's probably not good for anything
>> but small screens.
>>
>> Bert
>>
>>
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