Silvio Macedo wrote: > Hi, > > Without going into the details of the ongoing mail exchange, I would > point out that nothing can be worse than XVid/DivX screeners. Yes - > people do actually go into a theatre and tape the movie on a camera - > and this sort of, kind of, "movies" get distributed and very much > seen by "that" most profitable segment of man-25-to-35 year old. > Yes. Screeners are some kind of a crime against video nature. (not a joke) I can't think of much else that can do more to damage the economic value of movie making while at the same time giving very little benefit to the public at large. I downloaded a screener of a recent blockbuster and totally ruined my enjoyment of something that I had been looking forward to and that had taken a lot of effort creative effort to make. It would be nice if the Hollywood PR Flacs invented a new word for these screener distributors (something better/worse than pirate) and convinced us all to separately censor them. This should be a totally separate campaign than the usual tirades against file swappers of most other types. If done right this one might even gain popular support, and somewhat succeed, even among "pirates". - Tom (again, not joking here) > Whatever the DRM technology we pick, pointing a camera to a plasma > screen or patching your graphics card DirectX drivers to dump every > frame or anything else of the sort, will provide many times the > quality of a screener - and hence, will be far more appealing for > pirates, and uncontrolled revenue. > > Watermarking ? - first, few of these users will care, and secondly, > there is a huge amount of things you can do to a video to destroy its > watermark. In this race, too, pirates will always win - and one cannot > continuously distribute firmware to hardware devices for security > updates (unless they are networked, of course). > > My conclusion, as I've said many times, and inline with others that > wrote before in this mailing list, is that the solution is: cheaper > content, far easier to get ( one click away max or pushed (user > profiling)) and a different value chain - in particular, geography can > no longer be a factor in distribution - the pressure for distribution > is simply too much - and more intrusive advertisements.=20 > > Silvio > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20 >>[mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John Willkie >>Sent: 25 July 2005 16:54 >>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>Subject: [opendtv] Re: Hollywood may demand DRM for larger > > harddrives > >>=20 >>=20 >>yeah -- another disconnect from reality. Only the extremely poor > > or > >>avaracious will watch pirate content over paying for the=20 >>rights to watch >>professional content. Note that DVDs cost less than 2x the cost of > > in > >>person admission. When was the last time you ACTUALLY paid=20 >>money to see an >>independent film? Are you an IFC subscriber? I suspect=20 >>you're just deeply >>into cost-avoidance, and figure any content is better than=20 >>paid content. >>=20 >>It's funny that you bring up the Hollings suggestion -- dead=20 >>for more than >>half a decade -- and call it a Disney move. >>=20 >>You are unlikely to ever get the ability to grant a MS DRM license. >>=20 >>While computers will continue to play unprotected content, my=20 >>point was that >>content can decide what platform is appropriate for being=20 >>copied to: the >>EXACT opposite of what you extracted, yet within what I said,=20 >>since content >>can decide not to care what the platform is. >>=20 >>John Willkie >>----- Original Message -----=20 >>From: "Tom Barry" <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx> >>To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 2:55 PM >>Subject: [opendtv] Re: Hollywood may demand DRM for larger > > harddrives > >>=20 >>=20 >> >>> >>>John Willkie wrote: >>> >>>>so, you know about hell, too? >>>> >>> >>>A little bit. But only in the visions of the older > > Disney/Hollings > >>>proposals where all computers would be locked such that=20 >> >>they could not >> >>>play any unprotected content. This is still very unlikely=20 >> >>to come about >> >>> since the cost to competitive American computing would be=20 >> >>immense and >> >>>too many folks would squeal vigorously. >>> >>> >>>>They may not demand, but they can determine the=20 >> >>conditions for their >>content >> >>>>to be stored, once it's in DRM form. A harddrive lacking=20 >> >>a certain key >> >>>>could be easily prevented from storing content. Many=20 >> >>companies have >>been >> >>>>working on this technology since the middle of the=20 >> >>previous decade. >>Much >> >>>>hype, too. It's turned out to be a MS DRM world. >>>> >>>>And, Tom, you must have missed several recent=20 >> >>announcements from MS and >> >>>>Hollywierd. Work continues, and "Longhorn" will be=20 >> >>called "Vista." >>What do >> >>>>you think their talking about viewing? >>>> >>> >>>The Trusted Computing platforms, or whatever they will be=20 >> >>called next, >> >>>will still probably allowed unprotected media to play. And if the >>>burden to play protected media is too large then people=20 >> >>will probably >> >>>avoid it. And frankly, if only certain sub-systems and media are >>>protected then I could probably live with that. But I don't > > expect > >>>Hollywood to accept reasonable compromises yet. For instance, my >>>experiences trying to get fully licensed phone-home MS-DRM were >>>completely unworkable with the couple of discs I bought. >>> >>>Meanwhile, there is a hidden assumption that nobody would=20 >> >>have any media >> >>>to play if Hollywood was not satisfied. I expect the amateur and >>>independent movie makers and the pirates all will continue to > > supply > >>>whatever the big Hollywood concerns withhold. >>> >>>- Tom >>> >>> >>> >>>>John Willkie >>>> >>>> >>>>----- Original Message -----=20 >>>>From: "Tom Barry" <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 4:50 AM >>>>Subject: [opendtv] Re: Hollywood may demand DRM for=20 >> >>larger harddrives >> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Jeroen Stessen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>>Hollywood may demand DRM for larger harddrives - analyst >>>>> >>>>>People in Hell want ice water. Hollywood is in no=20 >> >>position to "demand" >> >>>>>this. >>>>> >>>>>- Tom >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Hello, >>>>>> >>>>>>See: http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050720_191403.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>Hollywood may demand DRM for larger harddrives - analyst >>>>>>>By Scott Fulton >>>>>>>July 20, 2005 - 19:14 EST >>>>>>>(...) >>>>>>>The moment you become capable of reading and writing movies > > and > >>>>>>>transporting that content across borders, Cai said,=20 >> >>"Hollywood can >> >>>>>>>get really concerned. What if you can carry like 20=20 >> >>movies with you >> >>>>>>>all the time, and they can't control the content any=20 >> >>more?" It's the >> >>>>>>>possible crossing of geographic boundaries that's the=20 >> >>problem, Cai >> >>>>>>>said - a problem that wouldn't crop up if the media=20 >> >>device were made >> >>>>>>>to sit on your desktop at home, no matter how small it > > becomes. > >>>>>>>(...) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Greetings, >>>>>>-- Jeroen >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>+-------------------------------+----------------------------- >>-------------+ >> >>>>>>| From: Jeroen H. Stessen | E-mail: =20 >> >>Jeroen.Stessen@xxxxxxxxxxx | >> >>>>>>| Building: SFJ-5.22 Eindhoven | Deptmt.: Philips=20 >> >>Applied Technologies >> >>>>| >>>> >>>> >>>>>>| Phone: ++31.40.2732739 | Visiting & mail=20 >> >>address: Glaslaan 2 | >> >>>>>>| Mobile: ++31.6.44680021 | NL 5616 LW Eindhoven,=20 >> >>the Netherlands >> >>>>| >>>> >>>> >>>>>>| Pager: ++31.6.65133818 | Website: >>>> >>>>http://www.apptech.philips.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>>>>| >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>+-------------------------------+----------------------------- >>-------------+ >> >>>>>> >>>=20 >>> >>>>>----------------------------------------------------------- >> >>----------- >> >>>>>>You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: >>>>>> >>>>>>- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user=20 >> >>configuration settings at >> >>>>FreeLists.org >>>> >>>> >>>>>>- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20 >> >>with the word >> >>>>unsubscribe in the subject line. >>>> >>>> >>>=20 >>> >>>>------------------------------------------------------------ >> >>---------- >> >>>>>You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: >>>>> >>>>>- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user=20 >> >>configuration settings at >> >>>>FreeLists.org >>>> >>>> >>>>>- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20 >> >>with the word >> >>>>unsubscribe in the subject line. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>=20 >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: >>>> >>>>- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user=20 >> >>configuration settings at >>FreeLists.org >> >>>>- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20 >> >>with the word >>unsubscribe in the subject line. >> >>>> >>> >>>=20 >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: >>> >>>- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration=20 >> >>settings at >>FreeLists.org >> >>>- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx=20 >> >>with the word >>unsubscribe in the subject line. >> >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: >>=20 >>- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration=20 >>settings at FreeLists.org=20 >>=20 >>- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with=20 >>the word unsubscribe in the subject line. >>=20 > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: > > - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at > FreeLists.org > > - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word > unsubscribe in the subject line. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.