As I said before, I am certainly not most people and might not know what the average consumer needs or wants. As to the limits of receptibility, I was referring to tuning into available programming. I didn't know there was much programming on shortwave. I do know there is programming on HD. When I refer to choosing a car, I don't mean that they would chose a brand or model based on the radio, but rather, if they are looking for a particular car at the dealer, they will buy the car with the added features that they want. For example, I bought a Ford Explorer and I wanted 4 wheel drive, rock guards, tow package, tinted windows and a built in CD player. So I found one that had those items and bought it. But you are quite right in noting that If I had found one with all the features except the CD player, I would have added it in probably as an aftermarket item. But I assumed it had the ability to receive FM. Now that HD is available, I might expect my radio to receive that, too. By the way, I hate aftermarket sound systems. They like to pump lots of unnatural light and they don't fit in with the decor. Dan John Willkie <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent by: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 07/02/2008 02:47 PM Please respond to opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx cc Subject [opendtv] Re: Here we go again... are you most people? And, it sounds like you are saying that all cars should come with AM/FM/Shortwave/Intenet radio/iBiquity/XM/Sirius. What type of radio have I missed? And, at what cost? I'd like that kind of radio, but I suspect that few others would feed a need for 3-30 mhz shortwave. My mother bought a new, inexpensive car some years ago. It's the most expensive thing that she has ever bought, without input from my late father. She likes having a radio, and she got one. It's a Monsoon brand that came with her car. It's a remarkably good radio. Excellent sound. Plays MP3s, offers time when turned off. IIRC, she didn't even realize that it could play CDs, but it's a feature she seldom uses, even though Trini Lopez isn't hear often on talk radio. Having a built-in radio doesn't mean that you would avoid a cheaper car because of the quality of a radio. Now, compare that to performance (I guess now they're talking more seriously about mileage now), or not having tires ... I'm willing to bet that only foolish people choose a car based on the radio. I know that concept has been used in stand up comedy for a few decades. John Willkie -----Original Message----- From: dan.grimes@xxxxxxxx Sent: Jul 2, 2008 5:34 PM To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [opendtv] Re: Here we go again... Don't people kind of expect a sound system with AM/FM tuners and CD playback to be in the car they buy now days? And the system is still listed on the window stickers. And if they expect a radio, why wouldn't they expect a radio with the ability to receive any and all radio programming? In fact, I wouldn't doubt that more customers will require the sound system to have MP3 player hookups and subscription service reception as standard. Certainly aftermarket radios are more popular than ever, but I believe there are still many people that buy a car based on features including the stereo. I did when I bought a new car. A good CD player and FM tuner was one of the required features in a long list of add ons. And manufacturers are always looking for add ons that sound like the customer is getting a feature-loaded car. HD radio sounds like a good selling point to me. Of course, I always must admit that I am far from the typical media consumer. I still love listening to live radio while riding in my car. I don't own an iPod (takes too much time to manage) and I don't often listen to music CDs (I like the variety of radio). Satellite is yet another monthly fee I cannot afford and I like the local DJ and information I get. Dan John Willkie <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent by: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 07/02/2008 01:12 PM Please respond to opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx cc Subject [opendtv] Re: Here we go again... Maybe it's different for old fogies on the Right coast, but in Southern California, it's quite common for people to buy cars based on car features and not the type and style of floor mats, or even the radio. I might have missed it, but it's been more than a decade since I saw a car commercial that even mentioned the radio as being a product attribute. Unless I've missed something, car radios seem to have one or two standard form factors and there are a wide variety of "after-market" radios available, in a vibrant market. I am even of the understanding that car radios are cheaper than the cars themselves. I am even of the belief that a car without an OEM radio is often cheaper than a car with a radio, but that all cars have the standard form factor(s) that permit -- and I realize this may be shocking to some -- a customer to add an after-market radio to a radioless car. &n bsp; I suspect that one factor leading to lower than anticipated adoption of iBiquity is the excrebable commercials -- they make fun of prospects AND customers -- put out by HD radio partners. Clear Channel San Diego has these insulting exercises all day and night. It just makes me think they are clueless about marketing. A new series started up in the last week or so, but they still are beyond edgy. Since iBiquity seems to charge exorbiant IPR fees (at least to broadcasters) including $5,000 per year per station for a license fee (above any equipment purchase/maintenance) I suspect that HD radio is something of a large market phenomenon. To the extent it is a phenom. It's probably not unfair to assume that makers are also charged high fees. Since few customers chose cars based on the radio, and even fewer are seeking HD radio [a horrible marketing name, by the way], I suspect that adding HD radio to all -- say -- Ford model s would add to their costs, and wouldn't help them stem the sales/revenue/profits slide. I'm no fan of paying for content that is otherwise available for free. However, if you look beyond that, there are powerful attractants for XM and Sirius. The latter offers NPR, and the former, among other offerings, includes three Afro-pop channels. I doubt that among the "multitude" of HD radio channels out there, there aren't two Afro pop channels in the U.S. XM also offers at least three reggae channels. Not reggae programs, three reggae channels! Of course, 'bert could prove me wrong. Does he have a iBiquity radio in his car? Has he ever bought a car based on the radio that was installed? John Willkie -----Original Message----- >From: "Manfredi, Albert E" <albert.e.manfredi@xxxxxxxxxx> >Sent: Jul 2, 2008 3:51 PM >To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >Subject: [opendtv] Re: Here we go again... > >John Shutt wrote: > >> Patience, Bert. Things are in the pipeline for OEM HD Radio. >> >> http://delphi.com/manufacturers/auto/entertainment/audio/hd/ > >Thanks, John. Here's to hoping. > >Ford is offering HD Radio now, even as backfit to models as far back as >2005. > >The cars that offer HD Radio are listed here. Not nearly enough yet. >check it out. > >http://www.hdradio.com/buyers_guide.php?prime=autonew > >No word yet from GM itself, although it looks like you're onto >something. These guys rarely dsclose what they have in the works. > >Aftermarket might work, but not so good if the radio display is >integrated with other system, such as OnStar. > >This is probably like FM radio. It needs to be painlessly available in >cars before the medium can take off. The converse, of course, is also > true. If OTA TV becomes difficult to receive in apartments, because the >distribution plant was usurped by one (or more) MVPD, even people who >would otherwise use it often lose that option. > >Bert > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: > >- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org > >- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.