[opendtv] Re: Google's Page: White spaces test was unfair
- From: "John Willkie" <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:35:32 -0700
Your question is vague -- suggesting that you are not used to asking or
answering engineering questions.
Do you mean to ask if wireless microphones are allowed to use tv
frequencies? The answer is yes.
If you meant to ask if a wireless microphone is permitted to use the same
frequency as that occupied by a local full service TV station, the answer is
no.
However, who can use such microphones, the list is somewhat narrow, but not
as narrow as the rules at the beginning of the 1980's, when they were
strictly limited to television station licensees. Back in those days,
stations could only use the same frequency for wireless mics (within
studios) as occupied by their broadcast transmitter.
John Willkie
-----Mensaje original-----
De: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] En
nombre de Tom Barry
Enviado el: Friday, September 26, 2008 2:55 PM
Para: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Asunto: [opendtv] Re: Google's Page: White spaces test was unfair
Are wireless microphones allowed to operate on the same frequencies as
local TV channels?
- Tom
John Willkie wrote:
> "The protocol devices would be designed to operate in the white
> spaces, spectrum designated for television stations but unused. It
> would be "impossible" for the white spaces prototype to detect the
> weak signal that a wireless microphone puts out when a much more
> powerful TV station is using the same spectrum, Page said."
>
> Or "it's unfair that they expect these devices to work with the ACTUAL
> conditions that exist today in the United States."
>
> '"There's no way to do that," he said. "You're going to detect the
> television station, not the wireless microphone. What I'm telling you
> is, the test was rigged."'
>
> No, this is more like "I am quite wealthy, and it's obvious that the only
> other alternative for me is to recognize that I and my cohorts have never
> had anything more than the dimmest clue as to what we were talking about
in
> this context. We thought this was simple, and the proponents were wrong
> when they said it was complex and couldn't be done."
>
> ALL ALONG, those who actually understand the actual conditions that TV
> stations operate within were ENTIRELY CORRECT that these devices would
never
> work -- without having a $5000 signal level meter attached to each one --
> and that the proponents were completely clueless.
>
> So, we now have a billionaire whiner lying about the tests being rigged.
>
> They haven't even begun to scratch the surface of interesting and commonly
> seen RF environments. These devices were intended to, and would have,
> destroyed -- at the very least -- emergency broadcasts. Minor things like
> tornado warnings, etc. In the place of that, we would have enabled gamers
> and geeks to exchange porn collections wirelessy.
>
> I said early on that if successful, these devices would eliminate the need
> for the FCC. We now see why there is a need for the FCC -- to protect the
> airwaves from the all-consuming, ill-considered whims of Google. They
> should keep to their 747 "party plane."
>
> John Willkie
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] En
> nombre de Craig Birkmaier
> Enviado el: Friday, September 26, 2008 3:32 AM
> Para: OpenDTV Mail List
> Asunto: [opendtv] Google's Page: White spaces test was unfair
>
>
http://www.itworld.com/mobile-amp-wireless/55330/googles-page-white-spaces-t
> est-was-unfair
>
> Google's Page: White spaces test was unfair
> by Grant Gross
>
> September 24, 2008, 05:04 PM - IDG News Service -
>
> Google cofounder Larry Page blasted as unfair recent interference
> tests of prototype devices that would deliver wireless broadband on
> unused television spectrum.
>
> The tests, conducted by the U.S. Federal Communications Commission,
> measured interference with the wrong signals, Page said Wednesday.
>
> The tests attempted to measure interference with wireless microphones
> during a professional football game in Maryland, but those
> microphones were operating on spectrum also occupied by much stronger
> TV signals, said Page, speaking at a Washington, D.C., rally to
> promote the use of so-called white spaces spectrum.
>
> The protocol devices would be designed to operate in the white
> spaces, spectrum designated for television stations but unused. It
> would be "impossible" for the white spaces prototype to detect the
> weak signal that a wireless microphone puts out when a much more
> powerful TV station is using the same spectrum, Page said.
>
> "There's no way to do that," he said. "You're going to detect the
> television station, not the wireless microphone. What I'm telling you
> is, the test was rigged."
>
> Asked if he thought the FCC rigged the test, Page said he did not. He
> didn't elaborate on who rigged the test, but one possible implication
> is that the wireless microphone maker did. The National Association
> of Broadcasters and wireless microphone makers have opposed new
> white-spaces devices, saying there's a significant possibility of
> interference with their signals.
>
> Some mobile phone carriers have also opposed opening up white spaces
> spectrum to new broadband devices. That spectrum could compete with
> mobile service on spectrum that carriers paid billions of dollars
> for. The arguments over the white spaces have grown increasingly
> heated in recent months.
>
> Page called for the FCC to approve the use of the white spaces for
> broadband devices before November's presidential and congressional
> elections. And he suggested that the FCC was putting white spaces
> devices through a more rigorous testing process than it has with
> other devices. Generally, the FCC allows new unlicensed devices to be
> built and to operate in areas designated for unlicensed devices as
> long as they don't interfere with other devices, Page said.
>
> "There's nobody in the world who can truthfully tell you there's no
> way to produce a device that doesn't interfere," Page said. "That's
> just garbage -- not true."
>
> An FCC spokesman didn't immediately return a message asking for
> comment on Page's statement.
> But Shure, a maker of wireless microphones, disputed Page's
> description of the FCC's August test in Landover, Maryland.
>
> "The FCC's wireless microphone field tests were carefully planned and
> thoroughly executed based on sound engineering science and real-world
> operating scenarios," said Mark Brunner, Shure's senior director for
> public and industry relations. "These tests were open to the public,
> and those who choose to discount the results -- which have not yet
> been published -- had every option to be present and to witness them
> for themselves."
>
> As Page spoke at the Wireless Innovation Alliance's event in a U.S.
> Senate office building, two members of the House of Representatives
> issued a statement calling for the FCC to protect wireless microphone
> signals.
>
> The FCC tests so far have not proven that white-spaces broadband
> devices can work, said the statement from Representative Jim Cooper,
> a Tennessee Democrat, and Carolyn Maloney, a New York Democrat. In a
> handful of recent FCC tests, white-spaces prototype devices have
> failed, but generally because the devices stopped working, not
> because the devices interfered with TV stations or wireless
> microphones.
>
> "This is an issue that can only be resolved through science and,
> frankly, the tests performed by the FCC in its own labs and in the
> field have not proved that these white space devices can reliably
> detect the presence of a wireless microphone or a TV signal," the two
> lawmakers said in their joint statement. "We can all agree that FCC
> policy should foster innovation and encourage the efficient use of
> public airwaves, but new changes must not come at the expense of
> wireless microphones, which provide an important public good."
>
> In addition to Page, representatives of Microsoft, Motorola, Dell and
> other companies spoke at the white spaces event. Allowing broadband
> devices on the white spaces spectrum would spark hundreds of millions
> of dollars in new technology investment and may present the last
> chance the U.S. has for creating a new national broadband network
> that competes with cable and telecom companies, participants said.
>
> Representative Jay Inslee, a Washington state Democrat, said
> opponents of white spaces are interested in protecting their turf.
> "If you are for innovation, you are for the white spaces," he said.
> The technology exists to use white spaces devices without interfering
> with other signals, added Mark McHenry, CEO of Shared Spectrum, a
> company that sells spectrum-sensing radio technology to the U.S.
> military. Shared Spectrum's radio equipment allows the U.S. military
> to set up wireless networks in other countries without interfering
> with local television, he said.
> The company is "convinced" that white spaces devices can work without
> interfering in the U.S., he said.
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>
> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
> FreeLists.org
>
> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
> unsubscribe in the subject line.
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>
> - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
FreeLists.org
>
> - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
unsubscribe in the subject line.
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
FreeLists.org
- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
unsubscribe in the subject line.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at
FreeLists.org
- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word
unsubscribe in the subject line.
Other related posts:
