?? So, now you think that the content should be formatted differently for mobile/handheld, but you want that content to be made available on television sets in homes. Obviously, intellectual consistency is not one of your attributes. Also, I think it's unlikely that broadcasters devoted to HDTV will engage in much M/H broadcasting, unless they are showing mostly talking heads in HDTV. There just isn't much headroom. So, they won't bite into HDTV or SDTV stream bit rates; there will just be fewer null packets. Some streams I have seen have more than 50% null packets. The demos at NAB showed that the two systems shown used good, old fashioned UDP/IP multicasting. So, to put that -- without prejudice towards what the ATSC releases -- into your television set would be something basically beyond the ken of traditional television sets. I can say that the A-VSB proposal involves many levels of decoding complexity, and quite a few dedicated circuits. Last time I checked, television sets had just the circuitry they need. They aren't future-proof. "Potentially be delivered in PIP" isn't a realistic target, of course, since few receivers have this functionality. So, small screen formatting "will still work" is a non starter. Broadcasters want mass audiences, not specialized niche audiences. Wow, robust 240x320 video. What an absurd idea for homes; even pcs have better video than that. What you need to consider is simply this: what if the business and technical models for M/H are totally unique and unprecedented, with little or no regard for what has come before? What if it goes beyond the technical and business models used in any form of DVB, ISDB-T, and other forms of digital broadcasting? What if it isn't really broadcasting at all, and what if it actually -- or mostly -- provides a way to transmit non-real-time television (or non-television) programming? What if some broadcasters devote all or most of their M/H stream or streams to downloadable content? What if other broadcasters use their M/H streams to send Usenet or You Tube content? How would your television set make use of an image encapsulated in a MIME wrapper? Everything you have been talking about is basically putting new lipstick on the pig. What if M/H is an agile antelope with no makeup? What if M/H is mostly a rich authoring environment for transmitting traffic updates? What if M/H requires a "back channel" of some type for user interaction? What if M/H is something that only cell carriers, or MediaFlo can transmit? What if M/H works with those types of services, and broadcast, and web-based streaming media? What if all of the above is true? What if none of the above is true? What if only part is true? What if tentative decisions of the various M/H subcommittees are ripped up at the last minute for something completely different? What if the candidate standard is rejected and doesn't become a published standard? What if M/H encoders are too difficult for the average PhD to operate, and the receivers are too difficult to implement? What if the modulation system wasn't tested properly, or isn't improved or denigrated enough to satisfy the ATSC? What if the ATSC had nothing or little to do with the selection of the modulation system? What if M/H video quality and frame rate ranks with that of a mechanical Etch-a-Sketch? I've mentioned the concept of an electronic service guide. What if that barely has any relationship to the electronic program guides that we have today? It's possible that blue is equal to red, so talking about possibilities isn't real discussing. I'm not guessing as to many of the questions above, Bert. You are entirely guessing, and with little thinking, to boot. John Willkie -----Mensaje original----- De: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] En nombre de Albert Manfredi Enviado el: Sunday, July 27, 2008 6:40 PM Para: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Asunto: [opendtv] Re: Frames Per Second of 720P Tom Barry wrote: > The net result is I really do want things framed differently > between my phone and front projector. I don't doubt that streams meant for mobile hand-held devices would be formatted differently than programs optimized for typical fixed receivers. That seems so drop-dead obvious as to be uninteresting to dwell over, though. First of all, it's still possible that broadcasters want that content to also be available to their fixed receiver viewers. Is there a down side to the broadcaster? If the broadcaster is going to bite into his SD and HD bit stream anyway to provide M/H service, it's absurd to think that making this also available to fixed receivers somehow makes the penalty worse. Secondly, that content could potentially be delivered in a PIP display of the fixed receiver, so the small screen formatting could still work. Most importantly, though, if fixed receivers have the M/H demod, they could make use of the robust stream capability for times like John Shutt mentioned in the past. Example, if transmitter power has to be reduced for maintenance. Presumably, the broadcaster wants to retain his coverage area in these cases? To me, an extra tool in the OTA broadcaster's tool chest should be used as effectively as possible. Besides which, chip vendors will probably soon incorporate the M/H demod in all their ATSC chips, at which time the cost difference to fixed receivers will be minimal. Bert _________________________________________________________________ Time for vacation? 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