Boy, are you clueless. You act as if the ATSC exists independent, and aloof from it's members. It is a membership-based organization, and members get a vote. So, you have it EXACTLY backwards. The ATSC, by and large, reflects the views of its constituents. Of course, getting it exactly or approximately backwards is nothing new for you. When you get a chance to read and understand the M/H candidate standard, you might be able to see some errors in your views. Do you think that M/H will be sending HDTV video to hand-held devices? Do you think that viewers accustomed to HDTV in their home TV environments will be happy with something that is obviously less than HDTV? How about less than SDTV? How about UDTV? Isn't that a good niche for handheld devices? I'd say that it's an absurd waste of bits to try to target handheld devices with video that they cannot make use of. Oh, yes, I mentioned it earlier this year, and I can talk about it. At the NAB show, what everybody was showing for ATSC mobile and handheld was 1/4 VGA video: 240 x 320. How happy would you be watching that -- with short form video, mostly -- in your home? Would you rush out and buy a new tv set so that you could watch something less than SDTV on a big set. I guess it's possible that M/H will come out with different video formats than 240x320, but I don't think there is much of a niche for postage-stamp quality video on large sets. I'm sure you feel otherwise, but I'm also sure that you will never pay $ for a new set just for the privilege. Perhaps you think that the only reason your HDTV set cannot present HD radio is due to greedy conspiracies? John Willkie -----Mensaje original----- De: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] En nombre de Manfredi, Albert E Enviado el: Sunday, July 27, 2008 4:36 PM Para: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Asunto: [opendtv] Re: Frames Per Second of 720P Craig Birkmaier wrote: > The important question to ask in this content is what is > being done to enhance the the ATSC standard for fixed > receivers in the home? Or to be more precise, will > broadcasters support any enhancement that will not work > for legacy receivers? > > Clearly, h.264 is a desirable enhancement for both the new > M/H service and for fixed receivers. One must ask whether > broadcasters will use this codec for full resolution HD > broadcasts, knowing that legacy receiver will go black (or > blue screen). That's definitely the right question to ask, IMO, and it is a question mostly for the broadcasters and the CE vendors. Not something the ATSC has much sway over, other than writing the standard, of course. Seems to me that if broadcasters want to incorporate the mobile ATSC standard into fixed receivers, and can convince the CE vendors to do so, it will damn well happen. What's the ATSC going to say? No, you can't allow fixed receivers to demod the M/H streams? That's absurd. And they have no power to make such a ruling anyway. As to switching over to H.264 for legacy broadcasts of SD and HD, it will take a big demonstrable benefit before that happens, for obvious reasons mentioned many times. Again, I don't see the ATSC as having much to say about that, once they complete the standard. Seems to me that it's broadcasters who would delay that move as much as possible, for exactly the same reason broadcasters delayed analog switchoff as much as possible. For the same reason that a switch to DVB-T2 is going to be tricky. For the same reason that IPv6 migration is taking so long. It's not the standards bodies that are dragging their feet as much as it's the service providers, who also happen to be standards body members many times, and who have the reasons to take things slow. > I doubt that a broadcasters would be concerned about the > incompatibility of legacy receivers with h.264 bitstreams > delivered using 8-VSB, if these bitstreams are a separate > paid service like Moviebeam. Agree 100 percent. The ATSC would not have much to say about this either, for such a service. The service could probably use any codec and encryption algorithm of their choosing. Of course, that would then make the service responsible for supplying the needed STBs or mobile appliances. It's only if this new service provider wants to avoid having to supply proprietary STBs or mobile appliances that it would have to clear everything through a standards body. In short, I don't see anything unique about the ATSC's role in any of this. It's the standards body that's supposed to be serving the service providers, ultimately, by making it easier for vendors to supply interoperable equipment. If the leadership in the standards body lacks vision, it's up to their customers (broadcasters and vendors) to force things along. Bert ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.