[opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization
- From: Craig Birkmaier <brewmastercraig@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2017 12:31:54 -0500
On Feb 13, 2017, at 11:06 PM, Manfredi, Albert E <albert.e.manfredi@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
ROTFL. So, by moving analog AM to analog FM, this would be different? In
fact, digital MW sounds excellent, and digital in the FM band sounds about
the same as analog in the FM band, but you can get many more of these good
sounding streams in each channel. That's the basic effect you notice.
Funny, but you are agreeing with what the FCC said and I reported...
;-)
Bottom line. AM Digital = FM analog.
That being said, if you dedicated the same amount of spectrum a station now
gets for analog AM with digital, to an all digital service you might be able to
improve the quality.
More streams with FM digital is a mostly a non starter. It may dilute the
stations audience further, or that of another station. We have an FM talker
here that offers a subchannel with rock music format - somebody loses audience
unless more people listen. But fewer people are listening to music on FM
because of better options via the Internet.
And then there is the minor issue of monetizing these channels. The station
must convince an advertiser to support a "station" with little if any audience,
and move part of their budget from the primary service.
I've only got one problem repurposing the AM band for a digital service;
who is going to buy the receivers and listen?
I was in the market for a new tuner for my stereo. Sangean makes some very
nice equipment, so I looked at what they had to offer. In Europe, they sell
an Internet radio stereo tuner which includes FM and DAB. For the US, no
digital radio option in the equivalent stereo tuner. Why?
Because the market for these receivers it to small to be worth the effort.
There's no money in it.
Digital radio receivers are very cheap. They should be incorporated in all
radios. What's the obstacle?
Consumers do not want them.
Who is being paid off to keep this from happening?
Nobody.
The Sangean I bought has no AM tuner, nor does the Euro version, so as far as
I'm concerned, AM is dead. By now, digital radio reception should have been
incorporated in all radios. And my bet is, all it takes is an FCC standard.
THe standard was approved by the FCC a very long time ago. What you are asking
for is NOT a standard, but a MANDATE from the FCC that anyone who builds a
radio MUST include an iBiquity receiver.
Your problem, Craig, is that you don't fathom how even analog FM came to
exist. Never mind digital TV. These things exist when the CE vendors make
them available ubiquitously.
Now I'm falling on the floor laughing.
Radio was an exciting new service when it was introduced in this country.
Consumers quickly purchased receivers (NO FCC MANDATE) because they could
access all kinds of content via this new service. FM was a response to several
major issues:
- Significantly improved audio quality with much less interference;
- Demand for spectrum for MORE radio stations;
CE vendors have no reason to force us to buy HD radio receivers because there
is very little demand. Despite this, many auto manufacturers are now including
these receivers. But this is not going to turn the tide - HD radio is not in
demand, nor is it a major improvement over analog FM. It does nothing to help
radio stations compete with new Internet services that allow the user to access
vast amounts of content and pay a small monthly fee to avoid commercials.
Walmart, go to Target, buy your average GM car, where are all these HD
Radios you claim exist? Do you find them on the store shelves? Do you see
clock radios that include digital, for example, unless you shop in some
specialty web site? Get out there for a change, Craig. By now, it should
have been just like ATSC TVs. Everywhere. Cheap or expensive, in every size
and shape.
https://hdradio.com/blog/general-motors-extends-support-hd-radio-technology-new-2016-chevrolet-and-gmc-trucks
General Motors is among the major automakers to supply the HD Radio
Experience to their customers. These four truck models join the more than 200
vehicles available with factory-installed HD Radio receivers.
As for stand alone radios at Walmart and Best Buy, there were offered; nobody
wanted them.
Internet radio beats digital radio, if you have a broadband connection in
your car. If you don't, digital radio would be great, especially if it's not
crippled by hybrid mode.
As I stated before, accessing the Internet from a vehicle is quite simple these
days, and it provides continuity if you are motoring down an Interstate. All
you need is a smart phone.
We are now starting to see new vehicles equipped as Internet hot spots.
You might want to compare what has happened with HD radio to what happened with
car radios after the introduction of the iPod. All kinds of vehicles added an
auxiliary input for MP3 type device; MANY manufacturers added iPod connectors
and added navigation capabilities into the radio. Our 2008 Infinity has such a
connection with navigation integrated into the touch screen display. I updated
the radio in my truck to be able to plug in an iPod , and now my phone, via an
aux input.
Sadly I cannot remember when government legislation or regulation
has done what it was claimed as the "need" behind the action.
Not true. For HDTV to take hold, it took the ATSC tuner mandate.
Wrong.
HDTV became a success because MVPD services migrated to HDTV, in many markets
long before FOTA HD stations started to broadcast in many markets like mine.
I bought an HDTV in the '90s for the improved pictures for analog cable, but
mostly to enjoy near HD quality from DVDs.
And before you jerk your knee, this INCLUDES HDTV over cable. MVPDs would
have dragged their feet forever, were it not for HDTV OTA. They were, in
fact, loudly moaning and groaning about HDTV throughout the 1990s. And yet
now, no one would want to go back.
BULL. Most of the cable networks I watch were HD before ATSC broadcasts began
in Gainesville - the broadcast networks were still NTSC.
But this completely misses they reality of how HD happened. Broadcasters asked
for HD to protect their spectrum, but their arguments were centered on the
threat that if HD was offered via cable, the broadcast service would die.
And then there is the reality that as the country transitioned to HD, use of
broadcast TV continued to decline; at its peak Moore than 90% of U.S. Homes
subscribed to a MVPD service.
NO. But you have hit upon a valid point. existing receivers cannot
support square pixel, widescreen 480P.
Just another one of your obsessions that couldn't matter less. You claimed
that receivers would go dark with 480p, and that's just plain wrong.
Depends on the 480P format. You can ONLY use 704 samples per line. If you use
352 (widely used in cable) or 854 (full H resolution widescreen 480P many
receivers will go dark. THe cable industry made the intelligent decision to
deploy fully conformant MP@ML and MP@HL decoders.
True. But this is far from HD quality.
And you have HD too. It's called 720p and 1080p or i.
1080i for 59.94, a format that is still inadequate for sports.
But this is another bait and switch. This discussion was about creating ATSC
1.0 multiplexes to operate alongside ATSC 3.0 multiplexes during a transition.
To do that will require multiple sub-channels - there will not be room for 3-4
HD signals.
These are non-issues, Craig. Broadcasters have nothing stopping them from
using these existing options. The CE vendors implemented all of them. And
honestly, the difference between 720 X 80 and 704 X 480, or even 840 X 480,
is just no big deal, when you have the HD options available too.
It's a big deal on the Internet, and will be a big deal if broadcaster choose
to implement ATSC 3.0 and simulcasts during a transition.
Regards
Craig
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- » [opendtv] FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization - Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- McDonald, J Douglas
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- McDonald, J Douglas
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Craig Birkmaier
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Manfredi, Albert E
- » [opendtv] Re: FCC on AM revitalization- Craig Birkmaier