[opendtv] Re: Doug is Missing the Point

  • From: Bob Miller <bob@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2006 01:40:35 -0500

Doug McDonald wrote:

>Stephen W. Long wrote:
>>Doug is still missing the point.  With COFDM you can implement Single
>>Frequency Networks, using much lower power transmitters in locations much
>>closer to the actual consumers/viewers. 
>I am aware of that. Yes, it will work.
>  8VSB requires big stick mentality,
>>since it does not do SFN (as part of its primary business activities).  I
>>would assert that a COFDM system would provide HIGHER signal to noise than
>>8VSB because the transmitters could be located where the people are.
>Yes, that's true. The key word is "could". But WILL THEY BE? Or
>will they only be located in big cities? ATSC provides a
>cheaper way of serving large areas.
8-VSB does not provide a cheaper way of serving large areas. First  the 
difference in power requirements is minimal to equal. Second better 
COFDM receivers at lower prices using simpler antennas that can take 
advantage of multipath instead of trying to hide from it make for a much 
higher rate of reliable reception thru out the coverage area never mind 
the far field. And in the far field COFDM will match 8-VSB anyway at the 
same power levels.

Even if Doug was right and COFDM cost more in transmitter power using a 
single stick the extra cost of 8-VSB receivers, antennas and rotors 
would far outweigh the extra cost on the transmitter side.

Also broadcasters would be more than willing to spend a little extra on 
the transmitter side if it meant easy reception with simple receivers on 
the consumer side making for a real market for OTA. That is sans must 
carry which muddies the waters.

WILL THEY BE???  Are Sirius and XMRadio's COFDM repeaters where their 
customers are? Will Qualcomm and Crown Castle build a national network? 
I think they will. The more ubiquitous the network the more valuable to 

>>Also, I have yet to hear any meaningful conversation about the wasted
>>bandwidth (wasted channels) required by 8VSB to support translators in
>>remote areas (following the current analog model of a big stick with remote
>>translators on separate frequencies). 
>ATSC can use on-channel repeaters just like COFDM. It just requires that
>5th generation or better receiver be used, or else better
But that takes us back to the "we can't change anything because it will 
obsolete all current receivers" argument. ATSC can't use on-channel 
repeaters because of legacy receivers. If we want to talk about turning 
all current receivers into junk then there is the OPTION of redoing the 
modulation and codec at the same time.

>Where repeaters are common, out west, they will still work very easily.
Repeaters are "common" in 30% of the land area of the US. They will 
still "work easily" wasting spectrum. Spectrum rural areas could well 
use for other things. That was the reason for Senator Stevens of the 
rural area called Alaska to put up a bill that made the auction of 54, 
55 and 59 occur in 2002. Rural areas want more spectrum. Instead of 
wasting it on translators lets let them use it for WiMax and WiFi as the 
FCC proposes.

>The question is ... where is the willingness to implement big
>expensive SFNs on a nationwide basis? We are talking FREE OTA
>TV here, not pay tv.
>THAT is the question you have to answer.
Not so FREE TV. Only ONE NTSC quality program is required and the rest 
of the spectrum can be used for PAY services. As we see in the UK FREE 
DTV can be enough. FREEVIEW channels are being bid up as FREE OTA and 
the resulting ad revenues enjoy a rebirth. Some pay channels are 
dropping their fees and becoming ad supported channels on FREEVIEW.

But in the US you don't have to rely on advertising. With channels below 
52 you can sell subscription services all you want and if that is what 
it takes to build out reliable OTA networks then I think it will be 
done. Of course you have to have something that works. We have wanted to 
do it since 1998. Our numbers have shown that it makes incredible sense 
to cover the US with reliable mobile/portable/fixed OTA DTV whether it 
was ALL free ad supported, ALL subscription or a combination.

And 8-VSB doesn't cut it anyway you look at it. I have been looking for 
a long time. It is junk and should be disposed of as such. It is a waste 
of time, so far eight years or so.

BTW I don't buy the big expensive SFN's. SFN's are the most cost 
efficient way to build a network. Both for the customer and the 

Bob Miller

>Doug McDonald
>You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:
>- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at 
>- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word 
>unsubscribe in the subject line.

You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:

- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at 

- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word 
unsubscribe in the subject line.

Other related posts: