Richard Hollandsworth wrote: > 2. Only the latest and greatest "5th Gen" ATSC Decoder chips > "meet" the A/74 Receiver Guidelines....and only the new > Samsung DTB-H260F STB has a "5th Gen" chip. Hence, all other > "current" STBs can be expected to exhibit the same deficient > performance documented in FCC-05-199. One caveat: much of what's in A/74 is addressed by the tuner and not by the demod. So in fact, you can have a good 5th gen demod that doesn't give the performance you'd hope for. Another point: "latest and greatest?" we're talking about technology from 2003!! How is that "latest and greatest?" In fact, the mid-2005 Samsung Gemini measures much better than the LG. The question we should ask is, HOW COME "all other 'current' STBs" aren't up to technology demoed such a long time ago now? As to built-in receivers, I only have anecdotal evidence that they perform much better, and I have no idea which sets have the best ones. I see no test results anywhere. How come? That's why I think all the talk about how great it would be to have DVB-T receivers here in the US simply misses the point. Until we find out precisely what it is that keeps innovative solutions away from the DTT market in the US, any speculation about DVB-T in the US is idle talk. > 3. ATI submitted similliar test results for their "latest" > ATSC Decoder chips: http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_doc ument=6517693762 > Note the HUGE improvement with the latest two ATI chips > (Theater?? Xilleon??) compared to other (unidentified) STB's, > including what they called a "Third Gen" Receiver:. FYI: > Xilleon 240H is used in the Samsung DTB-H-260F. That's encouraging, but where are the test results of these ATI chips from the CRC? How good is the tuner in the Samsung STB? > 4. If you look at the CRC test results on the PROTOTYPE > LG/Zenith "5th Gen" Receiver, you will see that it did not > perform well with short delay, nearly equal strength multipath > test conditions, including Brazil "C" and "E" test conditions >...such as can occur with an indoor or attic mounted antenna. First of all, it is instructive to note WHEN the CRC tested this already-integrated-in-chip-form 5th gen demod. It was September 2003. Isn't it funny that such a ready product still hasn't been able to be incorporated in an STB at the end of 2006. That must be a record for a company deliberately not wanting to compete. But I don't agree that the 5th gen was poor at close echoes. Anything that allows reception when close and loud echoes are withing fractions of a dB is excellent. Yes, the LG showed a slight degradation inside of 0.1 usec, but that meant reception with echo 0.5 or 0.6 dB down rather than 0.1 or 0.2 slightly further out. Hardly "poor." See Table 4a, Table 11. Brazil C showed reception at 14.4 dB of C/N, meaning that the demod made use of echo energy. Not bad. Brazil E (3 equal strength paths, 1 usec apart) showed reception at 23.8 dB, which puts it on a par with COFDM receivers. Again, not bad. The CRC test of the Linx (from 2002!!) included "with reacquisition," which I think is important, and that managed reacquisition in Brazil E with 24.8 dB of C/N. The test of the LG did not include this info. > 7. I have severe multipath and my Sylvania 6900DTE's > "deficient" ATI NXT2004 ATSC Decoder chip doesn't always > provide flawless performance--despite help from a DTA-5000 > Smart Antenna. I can only go by the customer reviews they have at the Circuit City and Radio Shack web sites. It appears from these that the Accurian and Digital Stream clones were the best performers of this 3rd generation batch of STBs. > And when it recovers, there is a HUGE SNAPPING GRUNCH noise that > comes out of the Surround System....at which time my wife covers > her ears and exits to find another TV.... That is the sort of experience any self-respecting CE magazine would describe. But in the interest of complete disclosure, this has NOTHING to do with ATSC. Surely, a poor design execution of one brand of STB doesn't mean anything. I have no such problem with my STBs. The Accurian does exhibit a bit of a loud pop, to the subwoofer, when it's initially turned on or off, so I turn down the volume when first powering up. So what? These are indictments of less than perfectly turned out products, not the ATSC standard. If things are to get better for DTT here, we need less idle speculation from those with axes to grind, and more real information. Why are good STBs so late in coming and so hard to find? The technlology does exist. Bert ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org - By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.