Nice to see that DVB-T2 is still alive. Been following the list but with
diminishing interest as my main hobby is trying to stay alive.
Trying to find a cure for cancer to be exact. It has been just over 8.5
years fighting Stage IV Colon Cancer. Only reason I am still alive is that
I have been off the reservation more than half that time.
The equivalent of DVB-T2 for me now is checkpoint inhibitors and a rat
virus I have been injecting (20 sticks at a time) trying to both stimulate
my immune system and lower tumor cells defenses at the same time.
Still in decent shape at 71, racing my 40' C&C sailboat in the "Hospice
Race" of Ft. Lauderdale next weekend. Expect to win.
Still own channels 54 and 59 for Vieques Island and still could use DVB-T
there but won't. Will sell for the right price.
On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 2:25 PM, Mark Aitken <MAitken@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
We are fighting like hell to make sure it is NOT just warmed-over DVB-T2.
We is Broadcasters (much more than just SBG), ONE Media (with the support
of major manufacturers including Samsung), and several manufacturers. I
think we will prevail...
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Ron Economos
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2015 7:38 AM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: DVB-T2 with LTE-Advanced
The DVB-T2 P1 symbol uses a 384 bit PN sequence modified Golay auto
correlation technique and the ATSC 3.0 "bootstrap signal" uses a 1499 bit
PN sequence modified Zadoff-Chu auto correlation technique. Yes, they are
two slightly different ways of accomplishing the same thing, telling the
receiver what modulation parameters to expect in the following OFDM signal.
The DVB-T2 P1 symbol tells the receiver whether the following OFDM signal
is SISO T2, MISO T2, SISO T2-Lite, MISO T2-Lite or Non-T2. In addition, it
signals the FFT size (1, 2, 4, 8, 16 or 32K) and gives a hint about the
guard interval. It's 1 symbol long and takes 299 microseconds to send in a
6 MHz channel. It's sent at the same sample rate as the following OFDM
signal.
The ATSC 3.0 "bootstrap signal" tells the receiver whether the following
OFDM signal is some version number, an EAS emergency, system bandwidth (6,
7 or 8 MHz channel), time to the next preamble, the sample rate of the
following OFDM signal and a preamble structure that's not defined.
It's 4 symbols long and takes 2000 microseconds to send. It's always sent
at 6.144 Msps.
DVB-T2 uses a 1K FFT OFDM symbol and ATSC 3.0 uses 2K FFT OFDM symbols.
They both use frequency shifted repetition.
It's cool that the ATSC is using Zadoff-Chu. I respect that they're trying
to use the latest and greatest and I'm sure there are performance gains.
So it's clear that ATSC 3.0 will be very similar to DVB-T2, but different
in details. Whether the word "proprietary" is used is irrelevant. ATSC 3.0
will be a new terrestrial DTV standard.
My problem with this is why bother? If it's just going to be warmed over
DVB-T2, why not just use DVB-T2? You could take advantage of existing
silicon and be included in consumer receivers essentially instantaneously.
After all, most of the TV manufacturers sell almost the same model flat
panel in the US with an ATSC/QAM tuner as they do with a
DVB-T2 tuner in Europe/Asia. You're already fighting an uphill battle, why
not grease the skids at least a little? Are royalty fees more important
than basic survival?
BTW, the possible different sample rate of the "bootstrap signal" versus
the main signal seems like an unnecessary and somewhat hideous burden on
both the receiver and transmitter. It will probably never get used and
everyone will just use 6.144 Msps and 6 MHz channel width for the main
signal.
But whatevs. I like Craig's comment "or are we going to see a rerun for
which there is no audience?".
Ron
On 05/07/2015 09:06 PM, Mark Aitken wrote:
Ron, you got this ALL wrong. Nothing at all like DVB. Closer to LTE, butnot the same. PN sequence modified Zadoff-Chu auto correlation technique at
the base. Anything like that in DVB? Never...
make it proprietary.
Sorry, guess again.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ron Economos
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2015 5:06 PM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: DVB-T2 with LTE-Advanced
The ATSC published the first candidate specification for ATSC 3.0 today.
They're calling it the "bootstrap signal".
http://atsc.org/news-release/atsc-marks-milestone-for-next-generation-
broadcast-television-as-first-ingredient-of-atsc-3-0-enters-candidate-
standard-phase/
http://atsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/S32-231r4-PHY-System-Discov
ery-and-Signaling.pdf
It's a complete rip-off of the DVB-T2 P1 symbol, with stuff added to
proprietary standard rather that leveraging "other people's" IP. You say as
Ron
On 05/07/2015 05:33 AM, Craig Birkmaier wrote:
I get the impression that the ATSC once again wants to create another
much in you post, noting that you have largely abandoned the LTE
convergence path and are working on a new proprietary ATSC standard.
utility that is layered upon the existing LTE infrastructure, or are we
Have I got this right?
Is there a possibility of using the broadcast spectrum as a shared
going to see a rerun for which there is no audience?
unsubscribe in the subject line.
Regards
Craig
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