John -Please actually read my post before attacking. Parse it carefully. Pay special attention to the TWO different references to "the same size". There is no way it can be construed to mean I believe large displays take the same power as smaller ones.
- Tom John Willkie wrote:
Really? Aren't you an engineer? And you think that a large screen uses the same amount of power as a small screen? Ever wonder why the battery for a laptop is much bigger than the battery for a mobile phone? And, the battery life is much shorter? Ever wonder why the backlight on a cellphone only works for a few minutes after the last keypush on a cellphone on battery power, but runs all the time when connected to shore power? Ever wonder why the same can be seen with a laptop? Think it might have something to do with -- say -- the LARGE amount of power taken up by the screen and backlight? John Willkie -----Mensaje original----- De: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] En nombre de Tom Barry Enviado el: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:11 PM Para: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Asunto: [opendtv] Re: DVB considers SVC for 1080p and hierarchical modulation Interesting.But I'm not sure that, except for decoding processing consumption, a 1920x1080 display needs to take any more electrical power than my 320x240 display on my phone if the same size. You can have more pixels each giving off less light, or the reverse. The total illumination and power consumption (display only) shouldn't have to change for any given display size and viewing distance. Does it? Anybody know?But if you mean Bert intends to put a 50" display in the back seat for the kids then I guess I agree. ;-)- Tom John Willkie wrote:No, Tom. Going only by public announcements, ATSC M/H will support416x240video, and I haven't heard any public announcements mentioning other video formats. There was talk about an alternative video format, but it didn'tgoin the direction of more pixels. Since you won't read it: ATSC M/H IS FOR MOBILE/PORTABLE VIDEO. 720p ISFORHOME USE. Just because you can put an HDTV set into an automobile doesn't mean that it's a reasonable thing to do. That takes care of mobile. How many batteries do you think you'd need to carry to power a hand-held HDTV set? Don't be confused by Bert's interest in retrofitting his HDTV set for M/H; it's pure folly. There are uses for SVC beyond kludigly supplementing bad codec/frame sizes written into law. Indeed, Qualcomm MediaFlo uses main and enhancedlayers,FreeLists.orgwith 12/15 fps in the main, and 24/30 capability (and more pixels) in theenhancement layer.I haven't read anything in public about M/H frame rates, so I can't go further. John Willkie -----Mensaje original----- De: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] En nombre de Tom Barry Enviado el: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:44 PM Para: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Asunto: [opendtv] Re: DVB considers SVC for 1080p and hierarchical modulationWill ATSC M/H even have enough throughput for a single decent 720p stream after error correction? I'm not saying it won't but some other figures bandied about on this list a couple months ago made me doubt that. Is this public yet?- Tom (not on the committee) John Willkie wrote:Sounds very kludgish to me. Wouldn't it be "neat" if ATSC M/H 1.0providedsupport for SVC? SVC provides for a main and an enhanced layer, in my understanding, whichislimited to AVC. Seems to me that you could have a 720p main layer and a 1080p enhanced layer. Not too elegant, if it works at all. John Willkie -----Mensaje original----- De: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] En nombre de Olivier Houot Enviado el: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:02 PM Para: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Asunto: [opendtv] DVB considers SVC for 1080p and hierarchical modulation Some interesting perspectives in the last issue of DVB scene(www.dvb.org).There is an article about SVC (scalable video coding) that says it could be useful for future 1080p services.Since current boxes would not be compliant, there would be a need to simulcast a 1080p and a 720p version of a program.They consider 13 Mbps would be needed for the 1080p stream, and 8 Mbps for 720p (perhaps a bit high, since this is the average bitrate of current 1080i broadcasts). That would be a total of 21 Mbps.But using SVC, a two layered 720p/1080p stream would use just 15,4 Mbps. I have to say it is not clear to me how current boxes could extract the 720p stream without being designed for SVC , though.Also, the idea of broadcasting a robust stream for difficult reception conditions, with additionnal layered information in a more fragile but higher bitrate stream permitted by hierarchical modulation makes a come back. Tests performed with older MPEG2 system were unable to show a clear advantage with this method in the past, but it seems the efficiency of the new SVC scheme makes it worth to reconsider.In the same DVB scene issue, they mention an OTA demo of DVB-T2 at 36Mbps.FreeLists.org----------------------------------------------------------------------You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings atFreeLists.org- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.----------------------------------------------------------------------You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the wordunsubscribe in the subject line.----------------------------------------------------------------------You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings atFreeLists.org- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.----------------------------------------------------------------------You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the wordunsubscribe in the subject line.----------------------------------------------------------------------You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways: - Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings atFreeLists.org- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.----------------------------------------------------------------------You can UNSUBSCRIBE from the OpenDTV list in two ways:- Using the UNSUBSCRIBE command in your user configuration settings at FreeLists.org- By sending a message to: opendtv-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
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