[opendtv] Re: 4k @ 60 fps encoded into 15 Mbps using HEVC

  • From: "Leonard Caillouet" <lcaillo@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 20:47:45 -0400

Mark,

I would ask the same question about frame rates that you do about 1080i.  Is 
there really a good reason for low frame rates or is it just reverence to the 
religion of film.  It seems to me like fish on Fridays or Latin masses are a 
good analogy for both.

 

I must admit, my background in biomechanics biases me to higher frame rates, 
but once you see motion produced at rates high enough that the human visual 
system truly becomes the limiting factor, it is hard to go back.

 

Leonard Caillouet, MS, CET

Gainesville, FL 32608

 

 

 

From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On 
Behalf Of Mark Schubin
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 2:51 PM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: 4k @ 60 fps encoded into 15 Mbps using HEVC

 

On 10/22/2012 12:11 PM, Mark A. Aitken wrote:



While everyone is focused on the spacial resolution, temporal resolution is 
every bit as important. I would submit that 120Hz (for 4 k...240Hz @ 8k?) 
should become the future (grows proportional to spacial), and interlace must 
die. Thoughts?

I can't wait for interlace to die, and I LOVE high frame rates, but I think 
there's something worth at least thinking about: what high frame rates do to 
the storytelling look.  Even high-frame-rate evangelist Doug Trumbull has 
spoken of that effect, and there has been some buzz about "The Hobbit."

The issue may be able to be dealt with in other ways, but it is worth noting.

TTFN,
Mark




 

Which leads me to another question??? Why is CBS (and dragging Sony & others) 
so adamant about making sure 1080i is included in the upcoming h.265 spec? Is 
there more than religion at stake here?

 

Thanks...Mark

(the other one...)

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Manfredi, Albert E [mailto:albert.e.manfredi@xxxxxxxxxx]

Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2012 7:39 PM

To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: [opendtv] Re: 4k @ 60 fps encoded into 15 Mbps using HEVC

 

Mark Schubin wrote:

 

> As to cognitive dissonance, watching a movie (or opera) in a cinema 

> requires a financial outlay for a ticket, travel to the cinema, 

> blocking out time, and possibly such other costs/requirements as 

> getting a baby sitter, parking/transit fees, dinner, etc. If, after 

> all of that, the viewer doesn't like the movie, then all of the 

> expenditures of money and time were foolish. But the viewer doesn't 

> want to be a fool, so there is a predisposition to like the event.

 

That cracked me up.

 

I completely agree with this and your other points. I suppose that if the 
average joe went to the movies every day, some other activity would become the 
"event," and the movie-going would be more like watching TV.

 

The theaters we usually go to suddenly all switched over to Sony Digital Cinema 
4K, which is just about exactly twice as much horizontal and vertical as 1080p 
HDTV: 4096 X 2160. The ads and other features that come before the show, and 
before the actual movie previews, are instead 16:9 SDTV.

 

We like to sit about half-way up the seats, in the stadium style theaters. So 
the screen looks quite large, compared with how we watch the 42" HDTV at home.

 

Anyway, it's easy enough to "count the pixels" when the SD pre-show stuff is 
showing, but the Sony 4K, even on the 2:35:1 blockbuster format, is beyond 
reproach, as far as I'm concerned. I'm wondering whether any more than that 
even makes sense in a home format, even if 100" screens became the new normal.

 

A 100" screen is about 50" high and 87" wide. At say 10' viewing distance (too 
close for comfort, IMO), that's a distance of 2.4 picture-heights. So that 
calculates out to an angular separation of the pixels of 0.66 arcminutes at the 
viewer's vantage point, which ought to be well within what the majority of 
people can discern (the literature indicates anything from 1 to 2 arcmin, many 
claim 1.5). Even acknowledging that any such numbers are just first order 
approximations of actual visual acuity.

 

Bert

 

 

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-- 
Regards,
Mark A. Aitken
Vice President, Advanced Technology
 <HTTP://MisterDTV.wordpress.com> HTTP://MisterDTV.wordpress.com 



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