[opendtv] Re: 20050509 Mark's Monday Memo

  • From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 19:49:02 -0400

Craig Birkmaier wrote:
 > You don't need 2 Mpixel displays until they are larger than most
 > people will EVER buy for their homes. And PLEASE don't try to 
tell me
 > that 2 Mpixels on a 30 inch screen is better than 1 Mpixel. It 
is a
 > matter of screen size and viewing distance...not religion.

I think you need 2 mpixel displays to make things appear to move 
smoothly at 3 (or a bit more) screen heights viewing distance on 
fixed pixel displays.  This does not mean broadcasting more than 
720p, just scaling it to the bigger 1080p display will likely do 
it.  Hopefully they will all come with decent built-in scaling.

Of course if we actually were sending 24 fps movie source that had 
any more detail than 720p the 1080p@24 is already part of ATSC. 
But I have seen little if any broadcast HD where it would have 
made much of difference.

Note most of the new 1080p sets I've announced seen do not accept 
a 1080p@60 signal.  So new STB's, HxDVD players, deinterlacing HD 
scalers, etc. will not be able to provide this unless that is some 
HDMI provision or something I'm not aware of.

I don't know if they will be able to provide 1080p@24 movies but 
certainly hope so.

- Tom







> At 11:42 AM -0400 5/23/05, Manfredi, Albert E wrote:
> 
>>Reception and local display is one thing, broadcast
>>transmission standards are another. One size does have to
>>serve all receivers for an *efficient* *broadcast* system,
>>where you don't want to create separate simulcast streams.
> 
> 
> I can't agree with this statement. I believe that there may well be 
> cases where simulcasting on "different services" can be justified. 
> This is mostly a question of what the market demands.
> 
> Take a news channel for example.
> 
> There will always be demand from fixed receivers for this service, 
> and as such it makes sense to deliver it at SD quality levels or 
> better. But there will also be demand for a low bit rate service for 
> portable/mobile receivers during certain day parts. Logic says that 
> the service to fixed receivers can be based on more efficient use of 
> the channel in terms of bits/Hz, and that the mobile/portable service 
> should be optimized for robustness (and most likely lower image 
> quality) using less bits/Hz. If the marketplace supports this, and 
> the news organization can make money with both services, why not 
> simulcast?
> 
> 
>>The only constraining factor in DTV broadcast transmission
>>should be use of your channel capacity. If you want to use
>>the channel for multiple streams, or even a lot of
>>non-real-time file transfers, that would obviously dictate
>>a reduction in quality levels of your real-time streams.
> 
> 
> True. But this statement also reflects a major flaw in U.S. spectrum policy.
> 
> Why is our policy based on the idea that this capacity belongs to the 
> broadcaster? For decades this has been the case because there was no 
> real alternative. You needed the whole channel for one unique 
> service. Now - as Bert points out -  with digital, we are giving 
> broadcasters additional flexibility to create new revenue streams.
> 
> The question is one that was of great concern to broadcasters while 
> the ATSC standard was being developed. They characterized the new 
> standard as HD only right up to the bitter end. Why?
> 
> Because it would only take 1-2 MHz to move broadcasters to a digital 
> service that is equivalent to NTSC. So they said they needed 6MHz to 
> do HD, then when they knew they had prevailed, theyasked to change 
> the rules so that they could expand their franchise, without the risk 
> that new competitors could also get some DTV spectrum.
> 
> The only equitable way to deal with this is to decouple content and 
> carriage. Broadcasters SHOULD NOT be given a channel and the right to 
> squander it as they feel fit. What we need is a system where ANYONE 
> can pay the market rate for delivering a service. This will assure 
> that the system is being used at its best economic efficiency when 
> there is peak demand. We have already seen that broadcasters are more 
> interested in tying up the DTV spectrum than using it.
> 
> Would Pax be running all of those infomercials if they had to pay 
> market rates for the spectrum they are using?
> 
> 
>>1080 at 24 or 30p should work just fine. And with fast new
>>gear, deinterlacing 1080 at 60i into 1080 at 60p might just
>>provide better images than rescaling to 720 at 60p. I
>>wonder if anyone has done the comparison?
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 
> Obviously 1080P formats are not interlaced formats.
> 
> As for comparisons, you can cheat a million ways.
> 
> The only meaningful comparison is when you are stressing the system - 
> i.e. trying to push a lot of detail through the channel with fast 
> action, as is the case with sports. In this case 1080i is severely 
> handicapped. When de-interlaced it may look better on wide shots with 
> little or no action, but as soon as you go to tighter shots with 
> action, 720@60P will be superior, even without digital compression in 
> the signal path.
> 
>>Luckily, since all these options are already available,
>>we don't NEED TO CARE, do we. I don't understand why you
>>feel so compelled to carry the banner for 720p. The best
>>format to use will change over time, as displays get
>>bigger and higher quality. There's just no need to make a
>>religious war of this.
> 
> 
> It's not a religious war...It's physics.
> 
> You don't need 2 Mpixel displays until they are larger than most 
> people will EVER buy for their homes. And PLEASE don't try to tell me 
> that 2 Mpixels on a 30 inch screen is better than 1 Mpixel. It is a 
> matter of screen size and viewing distance...not religion.
> 
> Regards
> Craig
>  
>  
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