[net-gold] Can Physics Education Research Learn a Lot From Operant Conditioning?
- From: "David P. Dillard" <jwne@xxxxxxxxxx>
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- Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 13:01:49 -0500 (EST)
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Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 09:43:20 -0800
From: Richard Hake <rrhake@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Reply-To: Net-Gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: AERA-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Net-Gold@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Net-Gold] Can Physics Education Research Learn a Lot From Operant
Conditioning?
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If you reply to this long (13 kB) post please don't hit the reply
button unless you prune the copy of this post that may appear in your
reply down to a few relevant lines, otherwise the entire already
archived post may be needlessly resent to subscribers. This post
corrects misattributions of the Nye and Kronbrot comments of some
previous posts.
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ABSTRACT: PhysLrnR's Diana Kornbrot wrote that "Behaviourism, a la
Skinner, questions the usefulness of inferred mental states as an
explanatory concept - this has proved a dead-end."
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To which Bud Nye responded [slightly edited; my CAPS; my inserts at
". . . .[[insert]]. . . ]: "But, behavioral treatments have a strong,
extremely well documented history of effectiveness in psychotherapy
and learning. The applied behavior analysis research support of
behavioral methods is massive, of extremely high quality, and
compelling. . . . . . Skinner. . . .
.[[<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner>]]. . . made many
contributions and his work on operant conditioning is invaluable and
makes a strong contributions to this day. Cognitive Behavioral
Therapy . . . .
.[[<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy>]]. . .
.. is one of those strong contributions . . . Indeed Physics
Education Research (PER) CAN LEARN A LOT FROM OPERANT CONDITIONING
since rote learning also has a part to play in learning complex
ideas. But the 'responses' that are being reinforced are not merely
physical. They may well be verbal responses about the client's mental
state."
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I quote (with permission) comments I received from Julie Vargas,
daughter of B.F. Skinner, in response to my posts "Could 'Precision
Teaching' and the Wider Education Communities Learn Something From
One Another?" at <http://bit.ly/iA8mpj> and <http://bit.ly/ldcizH>.
Vargas's comments appear to be consistent with the above opinion of
Nye. She wrote [my inserts at ". . . .[[insert]]. . . ."; my CAPS]:
"In 'Behavior Analysis for Effective Teaching' (Vargas, 2009) I quote
[Eric Mazur]. What I didn't know was that his work was being touted.
as 'constructivist-oriented' 'Interactive Engagement.' I don't see .
. . . [[Mazur's method, see e.g., his YouTube talk at
<http://bit.ly/dBYsXh>]]. . . . as like Direct Instruction. . . . . .
There is no choral responding. . . . . . I'm not sure [Mazur's
method] is like Precision Teaching either. . . . . . . . .
[[<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_teaching>]]. . . . . I
didn't see any fluency exercises, nor student graphing. But [MAZUR'S
METHOD] IS DEFINITELY BEHAVIORAL in asking for student responding,
adjusting according to how they do answer, and in the objectives
being stated in clear terms that require 'applying' the principles to
every day life in addition to just memorizing them."
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PhysLnR's Diana Kornbrot (2012) in her post "Re: Behavior and/or
cognition" wrote (my CAPS): "Behaviourism, a la Skinner, questions
the usefulness of inferred mental states as an explanatory concept -
THIS HAS PROVED A DEAD-END. Skinner's theory also relies heavily on
associationism at a low level [bottom up], for example that language
learning can be explained by simple sound-action/event
reinforcements. His stance is strongly nurture rather than nature."
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To which Bud Nye (2012) replied [my inserts at ". . . . .[[insert]].
. . . "; bracketed by lines "NNNN. . . . "; so as to avoid quotes
within quotes " '.....' " and indicate who wrote what (in contrast to
the confusing mix of statements in the Nye/Kornbrot exchanges):
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NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
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. . . you state that "Behaviourism, a la Skinner, questions the
usefulness of inferred mental states as an explanatory concept-this
has proved a dead-end." But, behavioral treatments have a strong,
extremely well documented history of effectiveness in psychotherapy
and learning. The applied behavior analysis research support of
behavioral methods is massive, of extremely high quality, and
compelling. The new field of behavioral economics. . . . .[[
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_economics>]]. . . . has
established many new and important, often surprising principles
regarding economics. Indeed, because of its effectiveness, our legal
system has imposed many strong regulations on behavioral treatments.
Given these things, I wonder what you mean when you claim that
behaviorism "has proved a dead end". Why would we go to the trouble
of carefully regulating a "dead end"? How could a "dead end" lead to
new, highly productive areas of scientific research?
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Skinner . . . . .[[<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner>]]. .
. . made many contributions and his work on operant conditioning is
invaluable and makes a strong contributions to this day. CBT, as you
rightly point out is one of those strong contributions. . . . .[[CBT
= Cognitive Behavioral Therapy
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy>]]. . . .
Indeed PER CAN LEARN A LOT FROM OPERANT CONDITIONING. . . . .[[my
CAPS]]. . . . since rote learning also has a part to play in learning
complex ideas. BUT the 'responses' that are being reinforced are not
merely physical. They may well be verbal responses about the client's
mental state.
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NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
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CAN PHYSICS EDUCATION RESEARCH LEARN A LOT FROM OPERANT CONDITIONING?
In a PhysLrnR post of 31 Mar 2010 titled "Re: Could 'Precision
Teaching' and the Wider Education Communities Learn Something From
One Another?" [Hake (2010b)] I wrote:
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ABSTRACT: Julie Vargas, daughter of B.F. Skinner and President of the
B.F. Skinner Foundation <http://bit.ly/iIAntV>, commented on my post
"Could 'Precision Teaching' and the Wider Education Communities Learn
Something From One Another?" [Hake (2010a)] as follows (quoted with
permission; my insert at ". . . .[[insert]]. . . ."):
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1. [In "Behavior Analysis for Effective Teaching " (Vargas, 2009)] I
quote [Eric Mazur]. . . . . .[[on pages 194-195, accessible by
searching for "Mazur" in Amazon.com "Look Inside" feature at
<http://amzn.to/iPiNwd>. ]]. . . . . What I didn't know was that his
work was being touted. . . .[[by Hake (2001a)]]. . . . as
"constructivist-oriented" "Interactive Engagement."
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2. I don't see [Mazur's] work as like Direct Instruction. . . . [[in
this post [<http://bit.ly/ldcizH>] I give various conflicting
meanings of the vague term "direct instruction"]]. . . . As described
in his book he just poses practical multiple-choice questions
following a mini-lecture (usually a third of the lecture hour)
students first answer and then discuss among themselves and answer
again as he walks around listening to their explanations. There is
no choral responding.
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3. I'm not sure [Mazur's method] is like Precision Teaching either. .
. . . . . . .
[[<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_teaching>]]. . . . . I
didn't see any fluency exercises, nor student graphing.
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4. But [Mazur's method] is definitely BEHAVIORAL in asking for
student responding, adjusting according to how they do answer, and in
the objectives being stated in clear terms that require "applying"
the principles to every day life in addition to just memorizing them.
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Richard Hake, Emeritus Professor of Physics, Indiana University
Honorary Member, Curmudgeon Lodge of Deventer, The Netherlands
President, PEdants for Definitive Academic References
which Recognize the Invention of the Internet (PEDARRII)
<rrhake@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Links to Articles: <http://bit.ly/a6M5y0>
Links to SDI Labs: <http://bit.ly/9nGd3M>
Blog: <http://bit.ly/9yGsXh>
Academia: <http://iub.academia.edu/RichardHake>
Twitter <https://twitter.com/#!/rrhake>
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"People have nowadays . . . got a strange opinion that everything
should be taught by lectures. Now, I cannot see that lectures can do
so much good as reading the books from which the lectures are taken.
Lectures were once useful; but now, when we can all read, and books
are so numerous, lectures are unnecessary. "
Samuel Johnson according to James Boswell (1791)
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REFERENCES [All URL's shortened by <http://bit.ly/> and accessed on
10 March 2012.]
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Boswell, J. 1791. "Life of Samuel Johnson, LL.D.", online at
<http://bit.ly/qfDXPz>.
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Hake. R.R. 2010a. "Could 'Precision Teaching' and the Wider
Education Communities Learn Something From One Another?" online on
the OPEN! AERA-L archives at <http://bit.ly/iA8mpj> Post of 25 Mar
2010 11:47:54-0700 to AERA-L and Net-Gold. The abstract was also sent
to various discussion lists and is online on my blog "Hake'sEdStuff"
at <http://bit.ly/ioLsKG> with a provision for comments.
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Hake. R.R. 2010b. "Re: Could 'Precision Teaching' and the Wider
Education Communities Learn Something From One Another?" online on
the OPEN! AERA-L archives at <http://bit.ly/ldcizH>. Post of 31 Mar
2010 09:54:24 -0700 to AERA-L Net-Gold, and SClistserv. The abstract
is also being sent to various discussion lists and is online at
<http://bit.ly/kAQKNW> with a provision for comments.
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Kornbrot, D. 2012. "Re: Behavior and/or cognition," on the CLOSED!
:-( PhysLrnR archives at <http://bit.ly/xNbzed>. Post of 5 Mar 2012
09:02:41+0000 to PhysLrnR. To access the archives of PhysLnR one
needs to subscribe :-(, but that takes only a few minutes by clicking
on <http://bit.ly/nG318r> and then clicking on "Join or Leave
PHYSLRNR-LIST." If you're busy, then subscribe using the "NOMAIL"
option under "Miscellaneous." Then, as a subscriber, you may access
the archives and/or post messages at any time, while receiving NO
MAIL from the list!
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Nye, B. "Re: Behavior and/or cognition," on the CLOSED! PhysLrnR
archives at <http://bit.ly/xDEuyv>. Post of 5 Mar 2012 09:48:44-0800
to PhysLrnR. CAUTION !! - Nye prefaces his own comments by quotiing
Kornbrot's (2012) *entire* already archived post. To access the
archives of PhysLnR one needs to subscribe :-(, but that takes only a
few minutes by clicking on <http://bit.ly/nG318r> and then clicking
on "Join or Leave PHYSLRNR-LIST." If you're busy, then subscribe
using the "NOMAIL" option under "Miscellaneous." Then, as a
subscriber, you may access the archives and/or post messages at any
time, while receiving NO MAIL from the list!
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Vargas, J. 2009. "Behavior Analysis for Effective Teaching."
Routledge, publisher's information at <http://bit.ly/lTonxZ>.
Amazon.com information at <http://amzn.to/iPiNwd>, note the
searchable "Look Inside" feature. PhysLrnR's might be interested in
the results of a search for "Mazur."
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Other related posts:
- » [net-gold] Can Physics Education Research Learn a Lot From Operant Conditioning? - David P. Dillard
