This discussion suddenly triggered something in my failing memory - after all, I am 65 next month! Many years ago, I was told that steel bar ends because of drawing, chopping etc were often hard or starngely crystalline or whatever, but tended not to be homogenous like the rest of the bar. The guy who told me had been involved with production on autos, and siad that they had got into the habit of sawing off the first and last 6 to 9 inches of a 20 foot bar because otherwise they would often get quality problems, especially when they wanted to case harden the parts. Which could explain things. Peter Chadwick Swindon. ======================================== Message Received: Apr 16 2012, 09:50 AM From: "stepney" To: modeleng@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Cc: Subject: [modeleng] Re: Against the grain Many years ago I was given a box full of bar-ends from an engineering company. They range from 1/4" to 1" diameter and from 3" to 9" in length. Most are ordinary mild steel, but some are hard, probably EN16 or similar. Even though I use "known" material for important parts, there are many occasions when "any old bit of steel" will suffice. Hence this box full has been very useful over the years. Unfortunately during a house move (the one prior to the recent one), that box got put aside and filled with water. So, I have loads of rusty metal. Still comes in handy for the odd job. But, none that I have used before had this grain problem. Alan MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST. To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to, modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line. MODEL ENGINEERING DISCUSSION LIST. To UNSUBSCRIBE from this list, send a blank email to, modeleng-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word "unsubscribe" in the subject line.