this is my fear too but we will keep quiet about it unless it looks like something that will fix an issue.
On Aug 15, 2009, at 1:38 PM, Chris Hofstader wrote:David, reducing to 800x600 was the one low resolution situation I mentioned in my message of early this morning. It is possible that windows and other objects are clipped to a viewport before the accessibility API gets hold of the information which would make VO seem as though it was performing poorly.
I know you understand this stuff well enough to understand the factors at play. My fear is that people will remember years of tribal conversations about JAWS and Window-Eyes and, if changing something like resolution makes some thing work better, their beliefs will be reinforced while an actual bug (which Apple has been so good at repairing expeditiously) will be masked by the coincidental disappearance of a symptom.
Happy Hacking, cdh On Aug 15, 2009, at 7:55 AM, David Poehlman wrote:
For years, I did not regard screen resolution as a factor in vo use for the reasons you site, I however discovered that when someone asked me to change my screen resolution to 800x600 on my macbook so they could see it better, performance degraded till I returned it to 1024x768 so go figure. it is also true that setting springloaded files and folders unchecked and effect to scale instead of geeni effect improves vo performance and it should not. There are other possible factors at work here as well. for instance, I've experimented with desktop colors and stuff as well as font but the results have been mixed. Apple used to talk about an aqua interface. I don't know if that referred to only one of several or it was the only one they had but they were specific in mentioning it in regard to vo.On Aug 15, 2009, at 7:42 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: Hey Dudes and Dudettes,VoiceOver gets 100% of its information from very specific sources in the OSX UI layer and, perhaps, elsewhere in the OS. Nothing in VO, if our friends at Apple are telling the truth (we've no reason to doubt them), can be effected by screen resolution. This points to a bare truth that no matter what your resolution may be, VO should functionally behave identically.When I first saw screen resolution mentioned as a factor in VO performance, I tried a number of experiments (all were negative) and added in some thought experiments and found only one possibility: if a user has their screen resolution set too low and has a "smart monitor" the system may "clip" windows and their contents as the Cocoa layer may try to paing things that will not fit into the viewport.So, if different users are getting different results while running at different screen resolutions the flaw is virtually impossible to have been caused by screen rez.There is a lot of folklore embedded into the minds of people who used JAWS and/or Window-Eyes quite a number of years ago. When, in JAWS, we removed all of the resolution problems we knew about, our technical support people refused to believe the engineers and continued telling users to try changing their resolution which never seemed to actually solve the problem. Today, bothVoiceOver and orca run via a similar sort of API and should not have any trouble regarding hardware sorts of stuff like screen resolution or color depth.The tribal knowledge in this community and the lore of AT past continues to be repeated even though only a small number of problems in very specific applications on Windows still require a specific set of hardware settings.So, as we can eliminate screen resolution as the culprit, let's dig deeper and find the other differences between one user and the next when chasing bugs that don't repeat nicelyHappy Hacking, cdhPS: For a lot of good stuff about API based screen readers, check out Peter Korn's blog as he has been advocating for this model while was still fighting for an OSM solution. Peter is one of the major pioneers of this kind of system and he deserves a lot of credit for evangelizing about it.PPS: If anyone wants to call me regarding these sorts of issues my number in the summer is 727-656-1867 (actually, this is my number all year round as it is my mobile phone and goes everywhere with me). I'm also BlindChristian on Skype but I'm rarely online.2009, at 5:57 PM, Cheryl Homiak wrote:No, this has nothing to do with the Apple menu; this is jumping in apps. The resolution is a possibility. But, David, please be specific; how does Carla turn off her trackpad functionality?Thanks for the ideas; we'll check them out. -- Cheryl "Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer." (Psalm 19:14 Bible KJV)Click on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.comManage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below.//www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxwith 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Webinterface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.comManage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below.//www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxwith 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Webinterface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.comManage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below.//www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxwith 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Webinterface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover
Click on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxwith 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Webinterface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover
Click on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverUsers can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover
