Ron, The reason there was an Outspoken and before that the efforts from Bill Grim and the folks who made BEX, is because Apple under Steve Jobs didn't give a damn about accessibility. Or if they did, they didn't show it. Do you honestly think that the ceo of a company the size of Apple gets involved in day to day decisions about accessibility? I don't. Mary > > Click on the link below to go to our homepage. > http://www.icanworkthisthing.com > > Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. > //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover > > Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to > macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web > interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >