actually, the default is to hace all the cursors connected except the mouse and vo. This is the best way to leave it. On Mar 6, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote: Point taken. So right now I have the VO cursor following the keyboard cursor and the keyboard cursor following the VO cursor. I have the insertion pointer and VO cursor disconnected and the mouse pointer and VO cursors are also disconnected. Is this the way to start? On Mar 6, 2012, at 6:34 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote: > mouse should ignore vo. > as to why the commanders are available, first, we are trying to get at the > heart of your issue. Second, they serve purposes which you will understand > more clearly after you gain some experience with the mac os. It is quite a > bit different from windows although there are many things that seem similar. > > On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:41 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote: > > Why should this be so? What is the point of having these commander features > if they interfere with "normal" functions? I also have all the default > tracking (VoiceOver, mouse and keyboard). Should I have all those functioning > independently of each other? > On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:21 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote: > >> I have also tried with the keyboard commander and num-pad commanders off >> with the same non-results. So it is the same with or without quick-nap, >> keyboard or num-pad commanders. Is there a way of repairing or reinstalling >> safari? VoiceOver? Is there a way of resetting either of these to their >> default settings? Maybe I've mis-configured one or the other into garbage. >> On Mar 5, 2012, at 8:20 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote: >> >>> I wonder if somehow you are triggering quick nave? press the left and >>> right arrow keys together to toggle quick nave. make sure it is turned off >>> before you go click show. >>> >>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:17 PM, "Julio C. Perez" <jcperez11@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>> No, this isn't working on my system at this time. I have had this work in >>> the not too distant past but it isn't working now. >>> >>> Is safari the only browser that works under the Mac OS with voiceover? >>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 8:02 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote: >>> >>>> go right arrow after clicking show. >>>> >>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 2:06 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote: >>>> >>>> Weird and frustrating! In detail… >>>> >>>> 1. I select the link "voiceover basics". This takes me to a content list >>>> with seven items. I can either navigate to one of those links (lets say >>>> the "selecting a single item" link) or open the contents list by >>>> interacting with it and then arrowing down to the link. In either case, >>>> the result is the same. A list of "show" clickable items appears which >>>> when clicked on does not display text information but only changes the >>>> "show" option to a "hide" option. >>>> >>>> The VO-shift-up arrow WILL stop interacting with the current item every >>>> time. I've also used the quick nab left-down arrow and the num-pad #7. The >>>> problem is not with the interaction. The problem is that the explanatory >>>> text never appears… or maybe it does but I don't know where. >>>> >>>> I'm going to check with the Apple Accessibility folks and see what they >>>> can add to the mix. >>>> >>>> Thanks to you and all for all of your help so far. >>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 1:35 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote: >>>> >>>>> looking at this again, something weird is going on here because are >>>>> describing something you are interacting with and vu-shift-up arrow >>>>> should stop interacting. go right and left arrow move through the text. >>>>> >>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 1:31 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote: >>>>> >>>>> This exploration is yielding lots of new knowledge. I've now know about >>>>> the quick nab feature and how to use the various combination of arrow >>>>> keys to control safari operations. Unfortunately, my basic original >>>>> problem remains. Oh well… back to the front! >>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 11:38 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> sorry, this is the stop interacting key and it sounded like you were >>>>>> interacting with something. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:24 AM, Julio C. Perez wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> If I press "coo-shift-up arrow"Do you mean "command-VO-shift-up arrow"? >>>>>> cause if I do this it has the effect of moving the VO cursor up. >>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 2:33 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> press coo-shift-up arrow and then try vu-right. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:27 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> VO-left or right arrows only take me (line by line) to the top or >>>>>>> bottom of the object I'm interacting with. Either links to other topics >>>>>>> or groups. Not explanatory text. >>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:04 PM, John Panniers wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you go space on the clickable item, try navigating right with the >>>>>>>> VO and right arrow keys. See if that reveals anything for you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Take Care >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> John D. Panniers >>>>>>>> Director >>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind >>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>> http://www.macfortheblind.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE >>>>>>>> MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:02 PM, "Julio C. Perez" <jcperez11@xxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks John for the detailed clarification. I guess I did not get it >>>>>>>>> when David said it the first time. I can get back to the proper >>>>>>>>> window within the application by using the command-f2 twice. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Now I can get back to the issue I started this thread with. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So here I am in the help topic that is supposed to explain how to >>>>>>>>> select and deselect single and multiple items. I have here a list of >>>>>>>>> clickable objects that say "show" group with two items. When I >>>>>>>>> interact with the group, I find two clickable items within (as >>>>>>>>> expected). When I click on the "show" clickable, I expect to get to >>>>>>>>> some text or html window that explains how to do this. The only thing >>>>>>>>> I seem to find is that there now appears a "hide" clickable. Where do >>>>>>>>> I go to find the instructions for selecting or deselecting one or >>>>>>>>> more items? The window chooser command only gives me the "help" and >>>>>>>>> "utilities" child windows. Could this have something to do with the >>>>>>>>> navigational mode or something? >>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:40 PM, John Panniers wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The command-accent combination, which is the key below the escape >>>>>>>>>> key, will cycle you through open windows in an application. >>>>>>>>>> Command-tab cycles you through your open applications. For the >>>>>>>>>> help, try the command-accent or David's suggestion of using the >>>>>>>>>> window chooser menu with VO-F2 twice and then using the up and down >>>>>>>>>> arrows to see a list of your currently open windows. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Take Care >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> John D. Panniers >>>>>>>>>> Director >>>>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind >>>>>>>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479 >>>>>>>>>> Email, john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE >>>>>>>>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:36 PM, George B wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> hums what is a grave key, please?? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>>>>> [malt:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tracy Duffy >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 09:32 >>>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You can also try command along with the grab key. This will move >>>>>>>>>>> you from >>>>>>>>>>> window to window within an application. At least it does in Snow >>>>>>>>>>> leopard. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:30 PM, George B wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> good job david i am not on my mac and could not remember that >>>>>>>>>>> command >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [malt:mac4theblind- >>>>>>>>>>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert Poehlman >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 09:27 >>>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> try vo-f2 twice to bring up a list of open windows. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:18 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> So, when I press command-tab twice, it doesn't bring me to the >>>>>>>>>>> previously open help topic I left. It only switches me to the other >>>>>>>>>>> application windows or brings me back to the same VO utilities >>>>>>>>>>> window. >>>>>>>>>>> If I go to the menu and arrow down the windows options, I only see >>>>>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>> applications window available to choose from. Is one of those other >>>>>>>>>>> options on that windows drop-down the one I need to take me back to >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> topic I left? How does one switch to different windows within an >>>>>>>>>>> application window? >>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:00 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> try command-tab twice. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:47 AM, George B wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> First of all command tab changes your application from one to >>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>> not >>>>>>>>>>> windows within a application. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [malt:mac4theblind- >>>>>>>>>>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Julio C. Perez >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 08:44 >>>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Ok, here is an example.. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I am currently in a help window that has . here is an even better >>>>>>>>>>> example of not having a clue of something that should be (and needs >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> be) understood by a neophyte. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> As I am writing this message, I switch to another window where I'm >>>>>>>>>>> working with a help topic. I switch back to this window to write >>>>>>>>>>> something and when I use the "command-tab" hoping to return to the >>>>>>>>>>> help >>>>>>>>>>> window. I end up back in the VoiceOver utilities area. Not the help >>>>>>>>>>> topic I thought I would be going to. How do I make this simple >>>>>>>>>>> switch >>>>>>>>>>> from one window to another without having to navigate back to the >>>>>>>>>>> topic >>>>>>>>>>> layer after linked layer? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This is the sort of thing that I never had to think about before. >>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:24 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> can you give us an example? I believe I know what you need to do >>>>>>>>>>> but >>>>>>>>>>> rather than searching through help for an item, it would speed up >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> process having an example. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Julio C. Perez wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It seems like the more I think I've learned, the more I know I've >>>>>>>>>>> missed! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Right now I'm going through the VoiceOver help menu seeking areas >>>>>>>>>>> I'm >>>>>>>>>>> weak on and hoping to learn more. When I get to a "show" clickable >>>>>>>>>>> object, I select it. and nothing seems to happen except that it >>>>>>>>>>> changes >>>>>>>>>>> from a "show" to a "hide" area. Where does the related information >>>>>>>>>>> get >>>>>>>>>>> shown? What part of this process am I not getting? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I can freely admit that navigation and safari navigation in >>>>>>>>>>> particular are my weakest areas. This makes learning via the >>>>>>>>>>> provided >>>>>>>>>>> help topics slow. Does anyone know of a good tutorial for >>>>>>>>>>> transplanted >>>>>>>>>>> windows/internet explorer/JAWS users? I mean, there should be enough >>>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>>> us by now to have, at least, an email list that can serve as a place >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> trade and ask for information that might bore those of you for whom >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> mac environment is natural. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> /jp, mac user without papers!************ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any >>>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Joanne Appleseed >>>>>>>>>>> With His >>>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technology(eye)s >>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet >>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities >>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ************ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any >>>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ************ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any >>>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is: 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Hands-On Technology(eye)s >>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet >>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities >>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ************ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any >>>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ************ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any >>>>>>>>>>> changes to their list 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//www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ************ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any >>>>>>>>>>> changes to >>>>>>>>>>> their list subscription is: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> tracyduffy@xxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>>>>> Isaiah 2:11 Human pride will be brought down, >>>>>>>>>>> and human arrogance will be humbled. >>>>>>>>>>> Only the LORD will be exalted >>>>>>>>>>> on that day of judgment. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ************ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes >>>>>>>>>> to their list subscription is: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ************ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes >>>>>>>>> to their list subscription is: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 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where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to >>>> their list subscription is: >>>> >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >>>> >>>> The list archive is located at >>>> >>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >>>> >>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >>>> >>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> >>> >>> ************ >>> >>> >>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>> >>> >>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to >>> their list subscription is: >>> >>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >>> >>> The list archive is located at >>> >>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >>> >>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >>> >>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Jonnie Appleseed >>> with his >>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s >>> reducing technology's disabilities >>> one byte at a time >>> >>> ************ >>> >>> >>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >>> >>> >>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to >>> their list subscription is: >>> >>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >>> >>> The list archive is located at >>> >>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >>> >>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >>> >>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> >> >> ************ >> >> >> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. >> >> >> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to >> their list subscription is: >> >> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind >> >> The list archive is located at >> >> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ >> >> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: >> >> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> > > ************ > > > You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. > > > The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to > their list subscription is: > > //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind > > The list archive is located at > > //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ > > All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: > > john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > -- > Jonnie Appleseed > With His > Hands-On Technolog(eye)s > Touching The Internet > Reducing Technology's disabilities > One Byte At A Tie > > ************ > > > You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. > > > The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to > their list subscription is: > > //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind > > The list archive is located at > > //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ > > All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: > > john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > ************ You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to their list subscription is: //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind The list archive is located at //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx -- Jonnie Appleseed With His Hands-On Technolog(eye)s Touching The Internet Reducing Technology's disabilities One Byte At A Tie ************ You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list. The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to their list subscription is: //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind The list archive is located at //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/ All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to: john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx