[mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
- From: Sarah Alawami <marrie12@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 19:23:15 -0800
So now that you reset your vo settings? can you now access the show hide
clickable items that you were having trouble accessing? or are they still not
accessible to your voice over? If that's the case it looks like it's time for
either permissions repair or a reinstall of the os, but I really hope that's
not the case as both are annoying.
On Mar 6, 2012, at 4:15 PM, George B <gbmagoo@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Lol I think the subject line could be changed by now, please.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:mac4theblind-
>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Julio C. Perez
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 15:29
>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>
>> So now I've got VO reset to the initial defaults. I'm going to look
>> around the VO utility and check out how things are set.
>> On Mar 6, 2012, at 6:38 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>
>>> you can reset vo by opening the vo utility with vo-f8 and activating
>> the reset all voiceover preferences menu item under the file menu.
>>>
>>> Slow down, read carefully, talk to apple, don't get frustrated.
>> Thousands of us are able to use vo just fine and you will be too as
>> soon as you *grasp* it.
>>>
>>> On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:33 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>
>>> Ok, so I have all the commanders turned off (including the touch-pad
>> commander). Same non-results.
>>> On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:21 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have also tried with the keyboard commander and num-pad commanders
>> off with the same non-results. So it is the same with or without quick-
>> nav, keyboard or num-pad commanders. Is there a way of repairing or
>> reinstalling safari? VoiceOver? Is there a way of resetting either of
>> these to their default settings? Maybe I've mis-configured one or the
>> other into garbage.
>>>> On Mar 5, 2012, at 8:20 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if somehow you are triggering quick nav? press the left
>> and right arrow keys together to toggle quick nav. make sure it is
>> turned off before you vo click show.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:17 PM, "Julio C. Perez"
>> <jcperez11@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> No, this isn't working on my system at this time. I have had this
>> work in the not too distant past but it isn't working now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is safari the only browser that works under the Mac OS with
>> voiceover?
>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 8:02 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> vo right arrow after clicking show.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 2:06 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Weird and frustrating! In detail.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. I select the link "voiceover basics". This takes me to a
>> content list with seven items. I can either navigate to one of those
>> links (lets say the "selecting a sigle item" link) or open the contents
>> list by interacting with it and then arrowing down to the link. In
>> either case, the result is the same. A list of "show" clickable items
>> appears which when clicked on does not display text information but
>> only changes the "show" option to a "hide" option.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The VO-shift-up arrow WILL stop interacting with the current item
>> every time. I've also used the quick nab left-down arrow and the num-
>> pad #7. The problem is not with the interaction. The problem is that
>> the explanatory text never appears. or maybe it does but I don't know
>> where.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm going to check with the Apple Accessibility folks and see what
>> they can add to the mix.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks to you and all for all of your help so far.
>>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 1:35 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> looking at this again, something weird is going on here because
>> are describing something you are interacting with and vo-shift-up arrow
>> should stop interacting. vo right and left arrow move through the
>> text.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 1:31 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This exploration is yielding lots of new knowledge. I've now know
>> about the quick nab feature and how to use the various combination of
>> arrow keys to control safari operations. Unfortunately, my basic
>> original problem remains. Oh well. back to the front!
>>>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 11:38 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sorry, this is the stop interacting key and it sounded like you
>> were interacting with something.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:24 AM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I press "cvo-shift-up arrow"Do you mean "command-VO-shift-up
>> arrow"? cause if I do this it has the effect of moving the VO cursor
>> up.
>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 2:33 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> press cvo-shift-up arrow and then try vo-right.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:27 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> VO-left or right arrows only take me (line by line) to the top
>> or bottom of the object I'm interacting with. Either links to other
>> topics or groups. Not explanatory text.
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:04 PM, John Panarese wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you vo space on the clickable item, try navigating right
>> with the VO and right arrow keys. See if that reveals anything for
>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> John D. Panarese
>>>>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>>>>>>> MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:02 PM, "Julio C. Perez"
>> <jcperez11@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks John for the detailed clarification. I guess I did not
>> get it when David said it the first time. I can get back to the proper
>> window within the application by using the command-f2 twice.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Now I can get back to the issue I started this thread with.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So here I am in the help topic that is supposed to explain
>> how to select and deselect single and multiple items. I have here a
>> list of clickable objects that say "show" group with two items. When I
>> interact with the group, I find two clickable items within (as
>> expected). When I click on the "show" clickable, I expect to get to
>> some text or html window that explains how to do this. The only thing I
>> seem to find is that there now appears a "hide" clickable. Where do I
>> go to find the instructions for selecting or deselecting one or more
>> items? The window chooser command only gives me the "help" and
>> "utilities" child windows. Could this have something to do with the
>> navigational mode or something?
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:40 PM, John Panarese wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The command-accent combination, which is the key below the
>> escape key, will cycle you through open windows in an application.
>> Command-tab cycles you through your open applications. For the help,
>> try the command-accent or David's suggestion of using the window
>> chooser menu with VO-F2 twice and then using the up and down arrows to
>> see a list of your currently open windows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> John D. Panarese
>>>>>>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>>>>>>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>>>>>>>>>>> Email, john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>>>>>>>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:36 PM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hummmm what is a grave key, please??
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
>> Tracy Duffy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 09:32
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can also try command along with the grav key. This will
>> move you from
>>>>>>>>>>>>> window to window within an application. At least it does in
>> Snowleopard.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:30 PM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> good job david i am not on my mac and could not remember
>> that command
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:mac4theblind-
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert Poehlman
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 09:27
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> try vo-f2 twice to bring up a list of open windows.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:18 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, when I press command-tab twice, it doesn't bring me to
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> previously open help topic I left. It only switches me to
>> the other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> application windows or brings me back to the same VO
>> utilities window.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> If I go to the menu and arrow down the windows options, I
>> only see one
>>>>>>>>>>>>> applications window available to choose from. Is one of
>> those other
>>>>>>>>>>>>> options on that windows drop-down the one I need to take me
>> back to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> topic I left? How does one switch to different windows
>> within an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> application window?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:00 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> try command-tab twice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:47 AM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> First of all command tab changes your application from one
>> to another
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>>> windows within a application.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> [mailto:mac4theblind-
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Julio C. Perez
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 08:44
>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, here is an example..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am currently in a help window that has . here is an even
>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>>> example of not having a clue of something that should be
>> (and needs
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be) understood by a neophyte.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I am writing this message, I switch to another window
>> where I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> working with a help topic. I switch back to this window to
>> write
>>>>>>>>>>>>> something and when I use the "command-tab" hoping to return
>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>>>>> window. I end up back in the VoiceOver utilities area. Not
>> the help
>>>>>>>>>>>>> topic I thought I would be going to. How do I make this
>> simple
>>>>>>>>>>>>> switch
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from one window to another without having to navigate back
>> to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> topic
>>>>>>>>>>>>> layer after linked layer?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is the sort of thing that I never had to think about
>> before.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:24 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can you give us an example? I believe I know what you need
>> to do
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rather than searching through help for an item, it would
>> speed up
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> process having an example.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It seems like the more I think I've learned, the more I
>> know I've
>>>>>>>>>>>>> missed!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right now I'm going through the VoiceOver help menu seeking
>> areas
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> weak on and hoping to learn more. When I get to a "show"
>> clickable
>>>>>>>>>>>>> object, I select it. and nothing seems to happen except
>> that it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from a "show" to a "hide" area. Where does the related
>> information
>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>>>> shown? What part of this process am I not getting?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I can freely admit that navigation and safari navigation in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> particular are my weakest areas. This makes learning via
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> provided
>>>>>>>>>>>>> help topics slow. Does anyone know of a good tutorial for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> transplanted
>>>>>>>>>>>>> windows/internet explorer/JAWS users? I mean, there should
>> be enough
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> us by now to have, at least, an email list that can serve
>> as a place
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> trade and ask for information that might bore those of you
>> for whom
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mac environment is natural.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> /jp, mac user without papers!************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make
>> any
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make
>> any
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make
>> any
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make
>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make
>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make
>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make
>> any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make
>> any changes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> their list subscription is:
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tracyduffy@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Isaiah 2:11 Human pride will be brought down,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and human arrogance will be humbled.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Only the LORD will be exalted
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on that day of judgment.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
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>>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>>> With His
>>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>>
>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>
>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>
>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>
>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>>> with his
>>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>>>> one byte at a time
>>>>>
>>>>> ************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>>
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>>
>>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>>
>>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>>
>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>
>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>>
>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>>
>>>> The list archive is located at
>>>>
>>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>>
>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>
>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>
>>> The list archive is located at
>>>
>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>
>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>
>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>> With His
>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>> Touching The Internet
>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>>
>>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>>
>>> The list archive is located at
>>>
>>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>>
>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>
>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>
>> ************
>>
>>
>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>
>>
>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any
>> changes to their list subscription is:
>>
>> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>>
>> The list archive is located at
>>
>> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>>
>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>
>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> ************
>
>
> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>
>
> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
> their list subscription is:
>
> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>
> The list archive is located at
>
> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>
> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>
> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
************
You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
their list subscription is:
//www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
The list archive is located at
//www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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