[mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
- From: "Julio C. Perez" <jcperez11@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 18:21:56 -0500
Point taken. So right now I have the VO cursor following the keyboard cursor
and the keyboard cursor following the VO cursor. I have the insertion pointer
and VO cursor disconnected and the mouse pointer and VO cursors are also
disconnected. Is this the way to start?
On Mar 6, 2012, at 6:34 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
> mouse should ignore vo.
> as to why the commanders are available, first, we are trying to get at the
> heart of your issue. Second, they serve purposes which you will understand
> more clearly after you gain some experience with the mac os. It is quite a
> bit different from windows although there are many things that seem similar.
>
> On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:41 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>
> Why should this be so? What is the point of having these commander features
> if they interfere with "normal" functions? I also have all the default
> tracking (VoiceOver, mouse and keyboard). Should I have all those functioning
> independently of each other?
> On Mar 5, 2012, at 10:21 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>
>> I have also tried with the keyboard commander and num-pad commanders off
>> with the same non-results. So it is the same with or without quick-nap,
>> keyboard or num-pad commanders. Is there a way of repairing or reinstalling
>> safari? VoiceOver? Is there a way of resetting either of these to their
>> default settings? Maybe I've mis-configured one or the other into garbage.
>> On Mar 5, 2012, at 8:20 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if somehow you are triggering quick nave? press the left and
>>> right arrow keys together to toggle quick nave. make sure it is turned off
>>> before you go click show.
>>>
>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:17 PM, "Julio C. Perez" <jcperez11@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> No, this isn't working on my system at this time. I have had this work in
>>> the not too distant past but it isn't working now.
>>>
>>> Is safari the only browser that works under the Mac OS with voiceover?
>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 8:02 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>
>>>> go right arrow after clicking show.
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 2:06 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Weird and frustrating! In detail…
>>>>
>>>> 1. I select the link "voiceover basics". This takes me to a content list
>>>> with seven items. I can either navigate to one of those links (lets say
>>>> the "selecting a single item" link) or open the contents list by
>>>> interacting with it and then arrowing down to the link. In either case,
>>>> the result is the same. A list of "show" clickable items appears which
>>>> when clicked on does not display text information but only changes the
>>>> "show" option to a "hide" option.
>>>>
>>>> The VO-shift-up arrow WILL stop interacting with the current item every
>>>> time. I've also used the quick nab left-down arrow and the num-pad #7. The
>>>> problem is not with the interaction. The problem is that the explanatory
>>>> text never appears… or maybe it does but I don't know where.
>>>>
>>>> I'm going to check with the Apple Accessibility folks and see what they
>>>> can add to the mix.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to you and all for all of your help so far.
>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 1:35 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> looking at this again, something weird is going on here because are
>>>>> describing something you are interacting with and vu-shift-up arrow
>>>>> should stop interacting. go right and left arrow move through the text.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 1:31 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This exploration is yielding lots of new knowledge. I've now know about
>>>>> the quick nab feature and how to use the various combination of arrow
>>>>> keys to control safari operations. Unfortunately, my basic original
>>>>> problem remains. Oh well… back to the front!
>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 11:38 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> sorry, this is the stop interacting key and it sounded like you were
>>>>>> interacting with something.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 4, 2012, at 10:24 AM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If I press "coo-shift-up arrow"Do you mean "command-VO-shift-up arrow"?
>>>>>> cause if I do this it has the effect of moving the VO cursor up.
>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 2:33 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> press coo-shift-up arrow and then try vu-right.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:27 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> VO-left or right arrows only take me (line by line) to the top or
>>>>>>> bottom of the object I'm interacting with. Either links to other topics
>>>>>>> or groups. Not explanatory text.
>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:04 PM, John Panniers wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you go space on the clickable item, try navigating right with the
>>>>>>>> VO and right arrow keys. See if that reveals anything for you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John D. Panniers
>>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>> http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>>>>> MAC VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 1:02 PM, "Julio C. Perez" <jcperez11@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks John for the detailed clarification. I guess I did not get it
>>>>>>>>> when David said it the first time. I can get back to the proper
>>>>>>>>> window within the application by using the command-f2 twice.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Now I can get back to the issue I started this thread with.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So here I am in the help topic that is supposed to explain how to
>>>>>>>>> select and deselect single and multiple items. I have here a list of
>>>>>>>>> clickable objects that say "show" group with two items. When I
>>>>>>>>> interact with the group, I find two clickable items within (as
>>>>>>>>> expected). When I click on the "show" clickable, I expect to get to
>>>>>>>>> some text or html window that explains how to do this. The only thing
>>>>>>>>> I seem to find is that there now appears a "hide" clickable. Where do
>>>>>>>>> I go to find the instructions for selecting or deselecting one or
>>>>>>>>> more items? The window chooser command only gives me the "help" and
>>>>>>>>> "utilities" child windows. Could this have something to do with the
>>>>>>>>> navigational mode or something?
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:40 PM, John Panniers wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The command-accent combination, which is the key below the escape
>>>>>>>>>> key, will cycle you through open windows in an application.
>>>>>>>>>> Command-tab cycles you through your open applications. For the
>>>>>>>>>> help, try the command-accent or David's suggestion of using the
>>>>>>>>>> window chooser menu with VO-F2 twice and then using the up and down
>>>>>>>>>> arrows to see a list of your currently open windows.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Take Care
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> John D. Panniers
>>>>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>>>>> Mac for the Blind
>>>>>>>>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>>>>>>>>> Email, john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>>>>>>>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:36 PM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> hums what is a grave key, please??
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>> [malt:mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tracy Duffy
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 09:32
>>>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You can also try command along with the grab key. This will move
>>>>>>>>>>> you from
>>>>>>>>>>> window to window within an application. At least it does in Snow
>>>>>>>>>>> leopard.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:30 PM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> good job david i am not on my mac and could not remember that
>>>>>>>>>>> command
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [malt:mac4theblind-
>>>>>>>>>>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Hilbert Poehlman
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 09:27
>>>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> try vo-f2 twice to bring up a list of open windows.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:18 PM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So, when I press command-tab twice, it doesn't bring me to the
>>>>>>>>>>> previously open help topic I left. It only switches me to the other
>>>>>>>>>>> application windows or brings me back to the same VO utilities
>>>>>>>>>>> window.
>>>>>>>>>>> If I go to the menu and arrow down the windows options, I only see
>>>>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>>> applications window available to choose from. Is one of those other
>>>>>>>>>>> options on that windows drop-down the one I need to take me back to
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> topic I left? How does one switch to different windows within an
>>>>>>>>>>> application window?
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 12:00 PM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> try command-tab twice.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:47 AM, George B wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> First of all command tab changes your application from one to
>>>>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> windows within a application.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: mac4theblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [malt:mac4theblind-
>>>>>>>>>>> bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Julio C. Perez
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 08:44
>>>>>>>>>>> To: mac4theblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [mac4theblind] Re: help on help!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ok, here is an example..
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am currently in a help window that has . here is an even better
>>>>>>>>>>> example of not having a clue of something that should be (and needs
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> be) understood by a neophyte.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As I am writing this message, I switch to another window where I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> working with a help topic. I switch back to this window to write
>>>>>>>>>>> something and when I use the "command-tab" hoping to return to the
>>>>>>>>>>> help
>>>>>>>>>>> window. I end up back in the VoiceOver utilities area. Not the help
>>>>>>>>>>> topic I thought I would be going to. How do I make this simple
>>>>>>>>>>> switch
>>>>>>>>>>> from one window to another without having to navigate back to the
>>>>>>>>>>> topic
>>>>>>>>>>> layer after linked layer?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is the sort of thing that I never had to think about before.
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:24 AM, David Hilbert Poehlman wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> can you give us an example? I believe I know what you need to do
>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> rather than searching through help for an item, it would speed up
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> process having an example.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mar 3, 2012, at 11:16 AM, Julio C. Perez wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It seems like the more I think I've learned, the more I know I've
>>>>>>>>>>> missed!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Right now I'm going through the VoiceOver help menu seeking areas
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> weak on and hoping to learn more. When I get to a "show" clickable
>>>>>>>>>>> object, I select it. and nothing seems to happen except that it
>>>>>>>>>>> changes
>>>>>>>>>>> from a "show" to a "hide" area. Where does the related information
>>>>>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>>>>>> shown? What part of this process am I not getting?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I can freely admit that navigation and safari navigation in
>>>>>>>>>>> particular are my weakest areas. This makes learning via the
>>>>>>>>>>> provided
>>>>>>>>>>> help topics slow. Does anyone know of a good tutorial for
>>>>>>>>>>> transplanted
>>>>>>>>>>> windows/internet explorer/JAWS users? I mean, there should be enough
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> us by now to have, at least, an email list that can serve as a place
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> trade and ask for information that might bore those of you for whom
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> mac environment is natural.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> /jp, mac user without papers!************
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Joanne Appleseed
>>>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technology(eye)s
>>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Joanne Appleseed
>>>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technology(eye)s
>>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Joanne Appleseed
>>>>>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>>>>>> Hands-On Technology(eye)s
>>>>>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
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>>>>>>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> tracyduffy@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>>>>> Isaiah 2:11 Human pride will be brought down,
>>>>>>>>>>> and human arrogance will be humbled.
>>>>>>>>>>> Only the LORD will be exalted
>>>>>>>>>>> on that day of judgment.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Joanne Appleseed
>>>>>>> With His
>>>>>>> Hands-On Technology(eye)s
>>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
>>>>>> their list subscription is:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Joanne Appleseed
>>>>>> With His
>>>>>> Hands-On Technology(eye)s
>>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ************
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> their list subscription is:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Joanne Appleseed
>>>>> With His
>>>>> Hands-On Technology(eye)s
>>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>>
>>>>> ************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ************
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>>>
>>>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>>> With His
>>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>>> Touching The Internet
>>>> Reducing Technology's disabilities
>>>> One Byte At A Tie
>>>>
>>>> ************
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Jonnie Appleseed
>>> with his
>>> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
>>> reducing technology's disabilities
>>> one byte at a time
>>>
>>> ************
>>>
>>>
>>> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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>>
>> ************
>>
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>>
>> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>>
>> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>
> ************
>
>
> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
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> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
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>
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> The list archive is located at
>
> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
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> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>
> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> --
> Jonnie Appleseed
> With His
> Hands-On Technolog(eye)s
> Touching The Internet
> Reducing Technology's disabilities
> One Byte At A Tie
>
> ************
>
>
> You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
>
>
> The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
> their list subscription is:
>
> //www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
>
> The list archive is located at
>
> //www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
>
> All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
>
> john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
************
You are subscribed to the mac4theblind mailing list.
The url for this list, where one can unsubscribe or make any changes to
their list subscription is:
//www.freelists.org/list/mac4theblind
The list archive is located at
//www.freelists.org/archive/mac4theblind/
All emails intended for the list owner can be sent to:
john@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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