I don’t see the Decline and Fall allusion as being justified. Businesses
definitely don’t think our nation is in decline, thanks to one of the classical
Populist things Trump has done: lowering taxes, and not just for the
blue-collar worker but for businesses as well as part of his Populist promise
to blue collar workers to get businesses to build more things here and decrease
the outsourcing.
Gibbons blamed Christianity for the Fall of Rome if I remember correctly, but
while I don’t recall Gibbons specifically mentioning it, one can read of Rome
outsourcing their military and in the process teaching potentially enemies how
to fight as well as the Romans did. After a while Romans were content to hire
mercenaries to fight their wars. It was as though the British expanded their
Gurkha units into armies and then stayed at home – except for a few officers to
lead them. We in the West don’t need everyone to want or be able to fight in
wars, but we do need a sufficient number to be willing to do so (in
all-volunteer army situations) or willing to fight when drafted (when there
aren’t enough volunteers).
With our technological advancements it seemed possible to fight wars without
putting troops on the ground and thus avoid the infamous “body-bags” that
outraged people during the Vietnam War. Clinton tried that but it didn’t work
very well. Bush senior and junior both put troops on the ground. Obama didn’t
take them, at least not all of them, off the ground. Trump hasn’t had his war
yet, but neither has he removed troops from the ground.
I dearly hope he doesn’t go after North Korea. I was in the Korean war back in
1953 before the truce was signed. The Marines that were in it in 1950 (when I
was in the 10th grade) were in the toughest part of that war. The Marines at
the time I was in were all volunteer. The Army drafted but a few draftees
opted to go into the Marine Corps. I remember one old man (probably about 23)
in my boot camp platoon. The rest of us were mostly 17 (my age), 18 and 19.
Although if Trump did go after North Korea I would expect him to use
conventional weapons and not “destroy them completely” as he threatened – sort
of like the “shock and awe” description of yesteryear.
So, of the two reasons for the fall that I remember from Gibbons, Christianity
and the unwillingness of young men to fight in Rome’s armies, I don’t see
anything like either of these endangering our future existence, at least not in
the near term.
Lawrence
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On ;
Behalf Of Omar Kusturica
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 12:41 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: w
If this is is correct - which judging from the news and the Internet it seems
to be - then the appellation of Trumpland has some justification. At least a
sarcastic justification, if not a literal one. Decline and fall again.
On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 5:18 PM, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Trump has significant support, just not support by most of what we see on TV,
Netflix, or read in a lot of publications. Down here in a part of California
that usually votes for conservatives, I’ve seen a number of articles in support
of things Trump has done.
A lot of conservatives might well have wished for a different presidential
candidate, but whoever the party ran, they were convinced he or she would be
better than Hillary who provided a continuation of Obama policies. So one
might say that Trump won the election because he was running against Hillary.
But not just that, there is an important voting segment in America consisting
of blue-collar workers who have resented corporations outsourcing work to
foreign countries and importing alien workers to compete for their jobs. Trump
in taking a populist stance, a stance taking by many presidents and
presidential candidates in the past, has appealed, and still appeals, to them.
Bty, this Populist popularity isn’t restricted to Trump and the US, we see it
in Brexit. We see it in political movements in Europe. There is something
inherently wrong with welfare systems the depend on more and more workers
paying into them (foreign workers, since European birthrates have dropped) when
on the other hand most scientists are worried about global warming which is
contributed to by the “more and more” people welfare systems need. Also, some
people have started worrying about how many people this planet can support.
Thus, many conservatives wish Trump was a classier, wish he would keep his foot
out of his mouth, hope he doesn’t start a nuclear war, but appreciate his
Populist point of view.
Lawrence
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On ;
Behalf Of adriano paolo shaul gershom palma
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 9:37 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] w
trumpland
is the term to offensive?
(it is a long time i do not go
to the us hence probably out of focus)
but potus has massive support
or not?
i d be glad of your opinion
On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 at 03:52, Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Amused or not....
On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:22 PM, Robert Paul <rpaul@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
Ursula—millions of us down here are not amused by the word 'Trumpland.' So,
would you...? Thanks.
Robert
On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 5:48 AM, Ursula Stange <Ursula@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
If memory serves (warning: it doesn't always these days), I first heard of
Spengler through Henry Miller.
Ursula Stange
Somewhere north of Trumpland
I hadn’t heard of Spengler, peasant that I was, till I came to America.
Somehow he is better remembered here.
David Ritchie,
Portland, Oregon
