[lit-ideas] speranza.. speranza.... usque tandem...
- From: palma <palmaadriano@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 12:01:17 +0200
On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 11:59 AM, dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <
dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Palma was referring to bananas as frozen music.
>
> The idea being that bananas, as such, are frozen music, as such.
>
> In a message dated 4/30/2014 3:11:44 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> palmaadriano@xxxxxxxxx writes:
> avoid the locution "as such" - it is purely bullshit thrown in to show
> that one speaks with the literati-
> consider
> 0.1 what is meaning as such?
> and contrast with
> 0.2 what is meaning?
> if anyone has a non trivial case to be made for the use of 'as such' I am
> unable to fathom it.
>
> In general, the guideline from a Griceian perspective for the use of
> alleged trivialities or otiosities* is to look for the LITERAL meaning at
> the
> level of the EXplicature.
>
> "As such" is a comparative. Note that the Germans, who lack a word like
> the English 'like', in their colloquial speech, do have a very cognate
> form
> to English 'as'; to wit: 'als'. Phrases containing 'as such' are then,
> comparatives -- they are, qua figures of speech, similes -- rather than,
> say,
> metaphors.
>
> Now 'such' has an Anglo-Saxon pedigree. The -ch sound hides an interesting
> suffix.
>
> It started to be current c.1200, Old English swylc, swilc "just as, as, in
> like manner; as if, as though; such a one, he" (pronoun and adjective),
> from a Proto-Germanic compound *swalikaz "so formed" (cognates: Old Saxon
> sulik, Old Norse slikr, Old Frisian selik, Middle Dutch selc, Dutch zulk,
> Old
> High German sulih, German solch, Gothic swaleiks), from swa "so" (see so)
> +
> *likan "form," source of Old English gelic "similar" (see like (adj.)).
>
> While it may be argued that the colloquial "suchlike" (early 15c.) is
> slightly pleonastic, 'such' is German 'solch'. "Als solch".
>
> Palma was wondering for cases where 'as such' is NOT otiose.
>
> A philosophical background could be provided along Aristotelian lines.
> Aristotle used 'e', which was translated into Latin as "qua".
>
> Thus we can say that
>
> Griceians eat Italian food.
>
> Griceians enjoy a good party.
>
> But it's only
>
> Griceians _as such_ that rely on implicature as an explanatory notion.
>
> In other words: Griceians qua Griceians.
>
> There is another use of 'as such' which is abbreviatory and useful, in
> terms of the logical form involved. It does trigger the odd implicature
> which
> can easily be cancelled.
>
> Thus Grice may refer to "philosophers such as Wittgenstein", which SHOULD
> include Wittgenstein, although strictly, Grice is referring to philosophers
> who are LIKE Wittgenstein ('as'). But then Wittgenstein IS like
> Wittgenstein.
>
> Griceians insist that conversation is guided by the desideratum of the
> exchange of information being maximal; as such, they tend to avoid
> otiosities.
>
> In the above, the 'as such' replaces a longer _thing_.
>
> Kant possibly uses 'als solch' in his "Kritik" (or one of his "Kritiks", to
> be more precise).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Speranza
>
> (* The adjective 'otiose' as used in Griceian literature is due to Rogers
> Albritton. Someone who attended his lectures at Harvard, reported that
> Albritton used 'otiose' every OTHER sentence.).
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
> digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html
>
--
palma, e TheKwini, KZN
palma
cell phone is 0762362391
*only when in Europe*:
inst. J. Nicod
29 rue d'Ulm
f-75005 paris france
Other related posts:
- » [lit-ideas] speranza.. speranza.... usque tandem... - palma
