[lit-ideas] signal or two
- From: "Adriano Palma" <Palma@xxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 17:22:08 +0200
** For Your Eyes Only **
** High Priority **
** Reply Requested by 8/11/2011 (Thursday) **
in the vast amount of gobbleygook provided, the crucial fact is lost.
segnare had nothing to do with significare and even less with
segnalare.
can we move to something serious?
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ξε ν’, γγέλλειν Λακεδαιμονίοις ἀ ὅτι τ δε
κείμεθα, το ς κείνων ῥήμασι πειθόμενοι.
/begin/read__>sig.file: postal address
palma
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>>> <Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx> 8/11/2011 5:14 PM >>>
Palma provides some constructive criticism about the semantic fields
we
are considering. As he notes, in Greek we have
semeion
----
also seme
The first is neuter, the second feminine. Both mean 'sign'. According
to
U. Eco, they mean 'sign' only in the NATURAL sign, as a burp may
'mean',
naturally, that the indigestion has become sonorous.
The Italians (or Romans) translated 'semeion' or 'seme' as signum. In
modern Italian, the phrase 'sig-' does not exist. So naturally,
'signum' became
'SEGno'. The equivalent verb is 'segnare' as when Geary SIGNS a check.
It's his SIGNature that is required.
---- In post-classical Italian and Latin, the need was felt for a
'cognate' to 'segnare' and so, 'significare' was introduced into
Italian. Note that
by this time, they didn't care about 'sig-' not being a sonorous
manifestation of the lingo, and so it was accepted. "Significare" is
quite different
from 'segnare', in that we have the 'fic-' root attached to it.
Significare means to _MAKE_ a sign. Usually with a point at hand. The
Romans had used
the 'fic-' root a lot, as when they called the bishop (or heathen
antecessor) the 'ponti-fic', or "papa" in current Italian.
----- In Wittgenstein, and German at large, when he found to translate
Augustine, he found that 'zeichen' does the duty. This is related to
'token'
in English, and to 'teach'. "To teach" has to be distinguished from 'to
learn', even if Grahame, in "Wind of the Willows" confuses them, "I'll
learn you
a thing or two" -- he means he'll TEACH you, i.e. display by means of
_signs_.
---- In French it's even more complicated by the fact that they drop
all
the sounds after the accented syllable, making words very OTIOSE, most
of the
time.
Cheers,
Speranza
---
ps. Note that 'signature' rhymes with 'implicature'.
In a message dated 8/11/2011 10:54:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
Palma@xxxxxxxxxx writes:
It is just the utmost disgrace that Speranza lost a few postings.
It is equally irritating the exhibit of falsehood, since in Italian
'segnare' means never to signal (there is word which is "segnalare")
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