[lit-ideas] signal or two

  • From: "Adriano Palma" <Palma@xxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 17:22:08 +0200

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in the vast amount of gobbleygook provided, the crucial fact is lost.
segnare had nothing to do with significare and even less with
can we move to something serious?
ξε ν’, γγέλλειν Λακεδαιμονίοις     ἀ ὅτι τ δε
κείμεθα, το ς κείνων ῥήμασι πειθόμενοι.
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>>> <Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx> 8/11/2011 5:14 PM >>>
Palma provides some constructive criticism about  the semantic fields
are considering. As he notes, in Greek we  have



also seme

The first is neuter, the  second feminine. Both mean 'sign'. According
U. Eco, they mean 'sign' only in  the NATURAL sign, as a burp may
naturally, that the indigestion has  become sonorous.

The Italians (or Romans) translated 'semeion' or 'seme'  as signum. In

modern Italian, the phrase 'sig-' does not exist. So naturally, 
'signum' became 
'SEGno'. The equivalent verb is 'segnare' as when Geary SIGNS a  check.

It's his SIGNature that is required. 

---- In post-classical  Italian and Latin, the need was felt for a 
'cognate' to 'segnare' and so,  'significare' was introduced into
Italian. Note that 
by this time, they didn't  care about 'sig-' not being a sonorous 
manifestation of the lingo, and so it was  accepted. "Significare" is
quite different 
from 'segnare', in that we have the  'fic-' root attached to it. 
Significare means to _MAKE_ a sign. Usually with a  point at hand. The
Romans had used 
the 'fic-' root a lot, as when they called  the bishop (or heathen 
antecessor) the 'ponti-fic', or "papa" in current  Italian.

----- In Wittgenstein, and German at large, when he found to  translate

Augustine, he found that 'zeichen' does the duty. This is related to 
in English, and to 'teach'. "To teach" has to be distinguished from 'to
learn', even if Grahame, in "Wind of the Willows" confuses them, "I'll
learn you 
a thing or two" -- he means he'll TEACH you, i.e. display by means of 

---- In French it's even more complicated by the fact that they drop
the sounds after the accented syllable, making words very OTIOSE, most
of the 




ps. Note that 'signature'  rhymes with 'implicature'. 

In a message dated 8/11/2011 10:54:06 A.M.  Eastern Daylight Time, 
Palma@xxxxxxxxxx writes:
It is just the utmost  disgrace that Speranza lost a few postings.
It is equally irritating the  exhibit of falsehood, since in Italian 
'segnare' means never to signal (there is  word which is "segnalare") 

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  • » [lit-ideas] signal or two - Adriano Palma