John,
Very good. That sounds about right. The item that struck me most as I tried
to imply was the one against the strong and healthy. I never thought of that
very deeply, but I have been in that category for a long time. The people
around me have all grown sick and weak and they want to tell me about their
ailments. What can I say in return, “well, I had a headache the other night,”
or “I had an upset stomach after eating some spicy lasagna”? I can’t say those
things so I either say nothing or refer to someone else of our acquaintance who
has a serious illness. After a while people don’t want to talk to me about
their illnesses, and since that is the main thing they want to talk about they
are very brief in the things they do say, and if I say something, perhaps about
my hikes or photography, they aren’t very interested.
My sister who is two years younger than I, but in very poor health, once
bluntly (she has always been good at “blunt”) that she wasn’t interested in the
things I was talking about. Several weeks later she wrote me as though we
were not in any way estranged – just an annoyed outburst of a sick person I
suppose.
But another thing I noticed was that “Doctor” is one of the three types of
people to have as a “good friend.” I imagine that Yoshida and his friends were
not in very good health. One estimate, which may not be very reliable, has him
dying at about 58. Also, one of his previous comments has him saying that a
person ought not to seek to live past 40, for then he would be in ill health
and decrepit .
Lawrence
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On ;
Behalf Of John McCreery
Sent: Tuesday, October 31, 2017 10:51 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: people whom it is bad to have as friends
Omar, kind of you to think of me. Alas, asking me about an English translation
of Tsurezuregusa is like asking a Japanese businessman about a Japanese
translation of Chaucer. He would be very unlikely to know what he was talking
about. I am in the same boat.
For a taste of the magnitude of the task see
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsurezuregusa ;
and compare the translations of the opening sentence of the book by Donald
Keene, now considered authoritative, and that by G. Sansom, which Keene
considers the best before his own.
With these reservations, I offer the possibility that the passage in question
is intended neither more nor less seriously than the observations in the rest
of the book. Judging by other passages available on line, the author favors a
humble life spent with a few good friends, who because they know each other so
well, can only make casual observations about what goes on around them. They
know where they stand on everything else. The types of individuals mentioned,
the powerful, the young, the drunkard, the fighter...are all likely to disturb
the equanimity and familiar companionship that the author most values.
That is how I would read it.
John
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 1, 2017, at 6:31, Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
We need to consult the Yokohama John for this, I dont think that the passage is
intended seriously.
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 10:28 PM, Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
This could be an ironic or sarcastic passage ?
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 10:24 PM, Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Add a few more categories and it pretty much covers it that it is bad to have
any friends at all.
On Tue, Oct 31, 2017 at 10:21 PM, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Essay 117 from the Tsurezure Gusa of Yoshida Kenko:
There are seven sorts of people whom it is bad to have as friends:
First, men of high rank and power.
Second, young people.
Third, strong people who are never ill.
Fourth, people fond of wine.
Fifth, fierce and bold military men.
Sixth, people whose speech is false.
Seventh, greedy people.
Good friends are three:
Friends who make gifts.
Doctors.
Friends who are wise.
I recall being in a long-standing series of discussions with a Russian who
worked in Moscow and was convinced that the Russian system, people, everything
was better than anything in the west. He finally got around to the medical
system and observed that I was at an age where I had undoubtedly had treatments
in hospitals. He intended no doubt to compare his favorable treatment with
what he assumed would have been my unfavorable. But I told him that I had only
been in a hospital once, when I was four-years old, for appendicitis – and that
may have been (another doctor told my parents) a misdiagnosis. My Russian
“friend” immediately ended the discussion and never wrote me again.
Lawrence
