[lit-ideas] lw
- From: palma <palmaadriano@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: "lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 8 May 2014 13:59:18 +0200
wittgenstein was confused in a rather benign way.
in his view a statement of the form "king Leonidas is brave" is not
'saying' anything since it fails to be a representation/proposition of a
fact (the traditional cretinism of thinking that the abstract is not
representable coupled with crappy early behaviorism is the key to
understand the view, hence "KL died defending the Thermooilis" is a
representation of the fact that KL's heart stopped beating at xx time of
the yy etc.) In flurry of rhetorics the statements shows either something
about what the speaker thi of the king, or what hearer is supposed to
"grasp" etc. it does not say anything because the limits of what is
said/effeable are within the same limit of the logical sace, minus
contradictions and the negation of contradictions.
The twist that LW introduced is to add that something like "317 is prime"
is equally not 'saying anything', for the somewhat more sophisticated
reason that the quoted claim is tautological, if you believe his theory of
numbers, & being tautological it fails to 'exclude' any state of affairs
actual or possible.
it "shows" that 317 is prime, it cannot say it for the reason above.
how far one wishes to push such discussion is completely up to the dogma
that what Wittgenstein said is Talmudically understood, hence it is 'true'
in some sense or other, the rest is interpretation.
On Wed, May 7, 2014 at 11:34 PM, Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I don't see what there is about the say-distinction that cannot be said
> but only shown. "Statements say and pictures show" is a statement, not a
> picture. It is not something unsayable in our language either, instead it
> is a platitude. Now, is true that pictures can also 'say' in a way, and
> statements can also 'show', in a way. But I cannot see statements that
> 'show but do not say', any more than I can understand pictures that 'say
> but do not show.' I conclude that Wittgenstein had a few too much to drink
> when he wrote that, and Donal had a few much too much when he paraphrased
> it.
>
> O.K.
>
>
>> inst. J. Nicod
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