[lit-ideas] Re: lit-ideas Digest V14 #188

  • From: erin.holder@xxxxxxxxxxx
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2017 10:36:24 -0400

Not sure what you're implying.  Let's ask Speranza.


Quoting Walter Okshevsky <wokshevs@xxxxxx>:

Hey Erin,

Very happy to hear you're alive and well!

Small piece of advice:

In lawyer land as on the chess board, premature aggressiveness is
usually very costly.

1. P-Q4, .....


Cheers, Walter

On 2017-10-05 15:43, Erin Holder wrote:
This is the first time I've checked this account in, well, ages?  I
have 3272 unread e-mails.  Will probably be slow to respond.  Good to
see you're all kicking around.  Life is good here in lawyer land,
although working in health law I now deal with things like congestive
heart failure, and metastatic osteosarcoma, axillo bypass grafts,
opioid overdoses, bilateral above knee amputations, and things like
that every day, plus things like "He told me to fuck off!", "She swore
at my secretary!"  "His report was biased!", etc.  But it's never
dull.  Hope you are all well.

Erin


Quoting FreeLists Mailing List Manager <ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

lit-ideas Digest        Tue, 03 Oct 2017        Volume: 14  Issue: 188

In This Issue:
                [lit-ideas] Re: A history of the decline and fall
                [lit-ideas] Re: w
                [lit-ideas] Re: w
                [lit-ideas] Re: w
                [lit-ideas] Re: w
                [lit-ideas] Re: Peasantry

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2017 09:34:47 -0230
From: Walter Okshevsky <wokshevs@xxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: A history of the decline and fall

Good to hear from you, Bob, especially after your extended silence. I
was beginning to worry that you had left the sub-lunary realm. Trust
you're well.

Cheers, Walter



On 2017-10-02 18:52, Robert Paul wrote:
Ursula—millions of us down here are _not_ amused by the word
'Trumpland.' So, would you...? Thanks.

Robert

On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 5:48 AM, Ursula Stange <Ursula@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

If memory serves (warning: it doesn't always these days), I first
heard of Spengler through Henry Miller.

Ursula Stange
Somewhere north of Trumpland

I hadn’t heard of Spengler, peasant that I was, till I came to
America.  Somehow he is better remembered here.

David Ritchie,
Portland, Oregon


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------------------------------

From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: w
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 08:18:51 -0700

Trump has significant support, just not support by most of what we see on TV, Netflix, or read in a lot of publications. Down here in a part of California that usually votes for conservatives, I’ve seen a number of articles in support of things Trump has done.


A lot of conservatives might well have wished for a different presidential candidate, but whoever the party ran, they were convinced he or she would be better than Hillary who provided a continuation of Obama policies. So one might say that Trump won the election because he was running against Hillary.



But not just that, there is an important voting segment in America consisting of blue-collar workers who have resented corporations outsourcing work to foreign countries and importing alien workers to compete for their jobs. Trump in taking a populist stance, a stance taking by many presidents and presidential candidates in the past, has appealed, and still appeals, to them.



Bty, this Populist popularity isn’t restricted to Trump and the US, we see it in Brexit. We see it in political movements in Europe. There is something inherently wrong with welfare systems the depend on more and more workers paying into them (foreign workers, since European birthrates have dropped) when on the other hand most scientists are worried about global warming which is contributed to by the “more and more” people welfare systems need. Also, some people have started worrying about how many people this planet can support.



Thus, many conservatives wish Trump was a classier, wish he would keep his foot out of his mouth, hope he doesn’t start a nuclear war, but appreciate his Populist point of view.



Lawrence





From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of adriano paolo shaul gershom palma
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 9:37 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] w



trumpland

is the term to offensive?

(it is a long time i do not go

to the us hence probably out of focus)

but potus has massive support

or not?

i d be glad of your opinion



On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 at 03:52, Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Amused or not....





On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:22 PM, Robert Paul <rpaul@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

Ursula—millions of us down here are not amused by the word 'Trumpland.' So, would you...? Thanks.



Robert



On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 5:48 AM, Ursula Stange <Ursula@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

If memory serves (warning: it doesn't always these days), I first heard of Spengler through Henry Miller.

Ursula Stange
Somewhere north of Trumpland

I hadn’t heard of Spengler, peasant that I was, till I came to America. Somehow he is better remembered here.

David Ritchie,
Portland, Oregon


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--

palma,   apgs









------------------------------

From: Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 21:41:27 +0200
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: w

If this is is correct - which judging from the news and the Internet it
seems to be - then the appellation of Trumpland has some justification. At
least a sarcastic justification, if not a literal one. Decline and fall
again.
On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 5:18 PM, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Trump has significant support, just not support by most of what we see on
TV, Netflix, or read in a lot of publications.  Down here in a part of
California that usually votes for conservatives, I’ve seen a number of
articles in support of things Trump has done.



A lot of conservatives might well have wished for a different presidential
candidate, but whoever the party ran, they were convinced he or she would
be better than Hillary who provided a continuation of Obama policies.  So
one might say that Trump won the election because he was running against
Hillary.



But not just that, there is an important voting segment in America
consisting of blue-collar workers who have resented corporations
outsourcing work to foreign countries and importing alien workers to
compete for their jobs. Trump in taking a populist stance, a stance taking
by many presidents and presidential candidates in the past, has appealed,
and still appeals, to them.



Bty, this Populist popularity isn’t restricted to Trump and the US, we see
it in Brexit.  We see it in political movements in Europe.  There is
something inherently wrong with welfare systems the depend on more and more
workers paying into them (foreign workers, since European birthrates have
dropped) when on the other hand most scientists are worried about global
warming which is contributed to by the “more and more” people welfare
systems need.  Also, some people have started worrying about how many
people this planet can support.



Thus, many conservatives wish Trump was a classier, wish he would keep his
foot out of his mouth, hope he doesn’t start a nuclear war, but appreciate
his Populist point of view.



Lawrence





*From:* lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@
freelists.org] *On Behalf Of *adriano paolo shaul gershom palma
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 9:37 PM
*To:* lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [lit-ideas] w



trumpland

is the term to offensive?

(it is a long time i do not go

to the us hence probably out of focus)

but potus has massive support

or not?

i d be glad of your opinion



On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 at 03:52, Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Amused or not....





On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:22 PM, Robert Paul <rpaul@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

Ursula—millions of us down here are *not* amused by the word 'Trumpland.'
So, would you...? Thanks.



Robert



On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 5:48 AM, Ursula Stange <Ursula@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

If memory serves (warning: it doesn't always these days), I first heard of
Spengler through Henry Miller.

Ursula Stange
Somewhere north of Trumpland

I hadn’t heard of Spengler, peasant that I was, till I came to America.
Somehow he is better remembered here.

David Ritchie,
Portland, Oregon


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To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html





--

palma,   apgs









------------------------------

From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: w
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 13:21:30 -0700

I don’t see the Decline and Fall allusion as being justified. Businesses definitely don’t think our nation is in decline, thanks to one of the classical Populist things Trump has done: lowering taxes, and not just for the blue-collar worker but for businesses as well as part of his Populist promise to blue collar workers to get businesses to build more things here and decrease the outsourcing.


Gibbons blamed Christianity for the Fall of Rome if I remember correctly, but while I don’t recall Gibbons specifically mentioning it, one can read of Rome outsourcing their military and in the process teaching potentially enemies how to fight as well as the Romans did. After a while Romans were content to hire mercenaries to fight their wars. It was as though the British expanded their Gurkha units into armies and then stayed at home – except for a few officers to lead them. We in the West don’t need everyone to want or be able to fight in wars, but we do need a sufficient number to be willing to do so (in all-volunteer army situations) or willing to fight when drafted (when there aren’t enough volunteers).



With our technological advancements it seemed possible to fight wars without putting troops on the ground and thus avoid the infamous “body-bags” that outraged people during the Vietnam War. Clinton tried that but it didn’t work very well. Bush senior and junior both put troops on the ground. Obama didn’t take them, at least not all of them, off the ground. Trump hasn’t had his war yet, but neither has he removed troops from the ground.



I dearly hope he doesn’t go after North Korea. I was in the Korean war back in 1953 before the truce was signed. The Marines that were in it in 1950 (when I was in the 10th grade) were in the toughest part of that war. The Marines at the time I was in were all volunteer. The Army drafted but a few draftees opted to go into the Marine Corps. I remember one old man (probably about 23) in my boot camp platoon. The rest of us were mostly 17 (my age), 18 and 19. Although if Trump did go after North Korea I would expect him to use conventional weapons and not “destroy them completely” as he threatened – sort of like the “shock and awe” description of yesteryear.



So, of the two reasons for the fall that I remember from Gibbons, Christianity and the unwillingness of young men to fight in Rome’s armies, I don’t see anything like either of these endangering our future existence, at least not in the near term.



Lawrence





From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Omar Kusturica
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2017 12:41 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: w



If this is is correct - which judging from the news and the Internet it seems to be - then the appellation of Trumpland has some justification. At least a sarcastic justification, if not a literal one. Decline and fall again.



On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 5:18 PM, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Trump has significant support, just not support by most of what we see on TV, Netflix, or read in a lot of publications. Down here in a part of California that usually votes for conservatives, I’ve seen a number of articles in support of things Trump has done.



A lot of conservatives might well have wished for a different presidential candidate, but whoever the party ran, they were convinced he or she would be better than Hillary who provided a continuation of Obama policies. So one might say that Trump won the election because he was running against Hillary.



But not just that, there is an important voting segment in America consisting of blue-collar workers who have resented corporations outsourcing work to foreign countries and importing alien workers to compete for their jobs. Trump in taking a populist stance, a stance taking by many presidents and presidential candidates in the past, has appealed, and still appeals, to them.



Bty, this Populist popularity isn’t restricted to Trump and the US, we see it in Brexit. We see it in political movements in Europe. There is something inherently wrong with welfare systems the depend on more and more workers paying into them (foreign workers, since European birthrates have dropped) when on the other hand most scientists are worried about global warming which is contributed to by the “more and more” people welfare systems need. Also, some people have started worrying about how many people this planet can support.



Thus, many conservatives wish Trump was a classier, wish he would keep his foot out of his mouth, hope he doesn’t start a nuclear war, but appreciate his Populist point of view.



Lawrence





From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of adriano paolo shaul gershom palma
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2017 9:37 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] w



trumpland

is the term to offensive?

(it is a long time i do not go

to the us hence probably out of focus)

but potus has massive support

or not?

i d be glad of your opinion



On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 at 03:52, Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Amused or not....





On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:22 PM, Robert Paul <rpaul@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

Ursula—millions of us down here are not amused by the word 'Trumpland.' So, would you...? Thanks.



Robert



On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 5:48 AM, Ursula Stange <Ursula@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

If memory serves (warning: it doesn't always these days), I first heard of Spengler through Henry Miller.

Ursula Stange
Somewhere north of Trumpland

I hadn’t heard of Spengler, peasant that I was, till I came to America. Somehow he is better remembered here.

David Ritchie,
Portland, Oregon


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To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
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--

palma,   apgs











------------------------------

From: John McCreery <john.mccreery@xxxxxxxxx>
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 10:55:02 +0900
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: w

Lawrence, we agree.
Might add the qualifier that since Trump did not win the popular vote, his
appeal remains limited to a minority of Americans, currently somewhere
between 35-40%. Generalizations of the "Americans this, Americans that"
form are unwarranted.

Cheers. More poetry please.

John

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 12:18 AM, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

Trump has significant support, just not support by most of what we see on
TV, Netflix, or read in a lot of publications.  Down here in a part of
California that usually votes for conservatives, I’ve seen a number of
articles in support of things Trump has done.



A lot of conservatives might well have wished for a different presidential
candidate, but whoever the party ran, they were convinced he or she would
be better than Hillary who provided a continuation of Obama policies.  So
one might say that Trump won the election because he was running against
Hillary.



But not just that, there is an important voting segment in America
consisting of blue-collar workers who have resented corporations
outsourcing work to foreign countries and importing alien workers to
compete for their jobs. Trump in taking a populist stance, a stance taking
by many presidents and presidential candidates in the past, has appealed,
and still appeals, to them.



Bty, this Populist popularity isn’t restricted to Trump and the US, we see
it in Brexit.  We see it in political movements in Europe.  There is
something inherently wrong with welfare systems the depend on more and more
workers paying into them (foreign workers, since European birthrates have
dropped) when on the other hand most scientists are worried about global
warming which is contributed to by the “more and more” people welfare
systems need.  Also, some people have started worrying about how many
people this planet can support.



Thus, many conservatives wish Trump was a classier, wish he would keep his
foot out of his mouth, hope he doesn’t start a nuclear war, but appreciate
his Populist point of view.



Lawrence





*From:* lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@
freelists.org] *On Behalf Of *adriano paolo shaul gershom palma
*Sent:* Monday, October 02, 2017 9:37 PM
*To:* lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [lit-ideas] w



trumpland

is the term to offensive?

(it is a long time i do not go

to the us hence probably out of focus)

but potus has massive support

or not?

i d be glad of your opinion



On Tue, 03 Oct 2017 at 03:52, Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Amused or not....





On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 11:22 PM, Robert Paul <rpaul@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

Ursula—millions of us down here are *not* amused by the word 'Trumpland.'
So, would you...? Thanks.



Robert



On Mon, Oct 2, 2017 at 5:48 AM, Ursula Stange <Ursula@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

If memory serves (warning: it doesn't always these days), I first heard of
Spengler through Henry Miller.

Ursula Stange
Somewhere north of Trumpland

I hadn’t heard of Spengler, peasant that I was, till I came to America.
Somehow he is better remembered here.

David Ritchie,
Portland, Oregon


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To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html





--

palma,   apgs










--
John McCreery
The Word Works, Ltd., Yokohama, JAPAN
Tel. +81-45-314-9324
jlm@xxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.wordworks.jp/


------------------------------

From: david ritchie <profdritchie@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Peasantry
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 19:38:10 -0700

Some time before a flurry of meetings in this part of the world Donal challenged the suggestion that I had once been a peasant. I have no problem conceding that my life was not as Terry Jones described:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKu8Zlg8dtE <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKu8Zlg8dtE>
Then again, I don’t recall suggesting that I was a feudal peasant, a cottar in the Scottish clan system, a Russian peasant before the revolution… I was merely suggesting that the hour in question was long before I was elevated to the mighty status of He Who Looks After His Daughter’s Chickens.

Which reminds me…I haven’t yet closed the door to the coop.  Kulak laxity.

David etc.

------------------------------

End of lit-ideas Digest V14 #188
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