[lit-ideas] Re: grades & kleenex

  • From: "Judith Evans" <judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 17:17:00 +0100

>>>
> comment on a discussion of a few days ago.   I was taught (and have
> taught) that in North America, commas and periods always go inside the
> quotation marks, and question and exclamation marks go with the sense of
> the thing.
>>>

that's how US fiction's copy-edited/typeset.  To put a comma inside the
quotation marks when it wasn't there originally seems grotesque to me, and
can havw grotesque (and misleading) consequences.  A character in a novel
may or may not have said "So I got a plane comma". Adrienne Rich definitely
didn't write "This way of grief comma". Moreover, the person who's quoting
Adrienne Rich may need a comma after that quotation. That is, the sentence
may require it.

But perhaps that's a lost cause -- US publishers don't re-edit UK material
published there so the horrors only occur when someone there first-edits.

Person/persons. On reflection I think persons is the plural of person.
"Missing people" (as in the Irish site) doesn't however give a misleading
collective image:  the collective would be "a/the missing people" or -- a
different collective -- "missing peoples".

Judy Evans
jaye@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

> -----Original Message-----
> From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Ursula Stange
> Sent: 09 May 2004 14:10
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: grades & kleenex
>
>
> Julie is right, I think.  The missing people each went missing
> individually.  So we want a word that stresses that we're going to look
> for them individually, rather than collectively.    Perhaps 'people' is
> the correct collective noun only when you can actually (either actively
> or figuratively) collect the people.
>
> On another matter, I haven't been receiving emails from the group for
> over a month.  I was away part of that time, so wasn't paying attention.
>   But yesterday I spent time catching up on the web page and wanted to
> comment on a discussion of a few days ago.   I was taught (and have
> taught) that in North America, commas and periods always go inside the
> quotation marks, and question and exclamation marks go with the sense of
> the thing.   Also, question and exclamation marks count as end
> punctuation even when they are inside the quotation marks.   Just adding
> my belated two cents' worth.
>
> On still another matter, I was, all month, receiving Theoria mail and
> responded to Mike's announcement of the birth of his granddaughter.  To
> my knowledge, no one else there did (except privately perhaps).  I
> thought that mighty odd.  Then, yesterday, catching up with this list, I
> read many congratulations.   Different family here and there.   Nice to
> be counted among you.
>
> Ursula
> Still chuckling about the kleenex for grades story...
>
>
>
> JulieReneB@xxxxxxx wrote:
>
> >Any guidance on explaining the difference between "people" and
> "persons" to a
> >twelve year old would be appreciated.  She asked yesterday.
> Although I have
> >a pretty firm intuitive grasp of the difference and would have
> thought it easy
> >enough to explain, I found myself at a total loss.  I use the
> two differently
> >and consistently differently but suddenly I find it impossible
> to articulate
> >a logical definitional distinction.  "Collective" vs. "plurally
> individual" or
> >"individual plurality" doesn't mean much to a 6th grader....(or
> is that a
> >distinction only learned later on and experientially?).
> >Julie Krueger
> >
> >
> >>- (also still confused
> >>by the plural of person as well: "people" or "persons")??.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >I think that depends on the context. But I'm not sure.  So I gave up and
> >googled, and found something genuinely interesting (IMO).  Not
> only is our
> >charity that helps what it calls "missing  people" and their families
> >called The National Missing Persons Helpline, but, the use of "persons"
> >rather than "people" is both widespread and not new.
> >
> >
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