[lit-ideas] Re: grades & kleenex
- From: "Judith Evans" <judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 20:46:26 +0100
> **Actually, the number of euphemisms is quite extensive -- some rather
> comic.
Here too.
> Should a form ask for ones "gender" or "sex" or is either truly
> correct??
They should say "sex", as what they want to know is whether you're a man or
a woman (normally they mean your sex at birth). They don't that is want to
know whether you're a gender-bender, or how closely you conform to the
"gender norm" of masculine.
> > Back to sex and sex.
Yes, sorry. But you missed a great show! He wasn't degrading/degraded, it
was really all rather charming, as well as hilarious. So I am sorry if I've
given a wrong impression of ScoobyDoo's friend.
>>(winding-up?"
> **Nah, honestly not confident of correct usage
I'd say my usage is the correct one, but there doesn't seem to be an agreed
one.
>- (also still confused
> by the plural of person as well: "people" or "persons")??.
I think that depends on the context. But I'm not sure. So I gave up and
googled, and found something genuinely interesting (IMO). Not only is our
charity that helps what it calls "missing people" and their families
called The National Missing Persons Helpline, but, the use of "persons"
rather than "people" is both widespread and not new. A law company's web
page helpfullly says "Missing Irish People is a website to help locate
Irish missing persons", reinforcing my feeling that "persons" was
originally legal phrasing.
Interesting. But the real answer to your question is probably that both are
fine.
>>(laughing about S's actor friend [actually it wasn't just that, the whole
evening tended to levity])
> **My thoughts at present: looking forward to semester's end and a break
> from papers, grades, and administrators...
Ah yes. Ours ends in June but the summer vacation is not necessarily a
break from all that stuff. Still it was enough of a break for me to
understand -- and I think you haven't long to go now.
Judy Evans
jaye@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Steven G. Cameron
> Sent: 08 May 2004 19:28
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: grades & kleenex
>
>
>
>
> Judith Evans wrote:
>
> > I don't know what you mean by truly preferred. Way back when
> second-wave
> > feminism began, and indeed, before that, everybody used
> "sex"/"the sexes"
> > to refer to the fact that there were two, er, sexes. Cf _The
> Second Sex_.)
> > "Gender", then, referred to (and, "gender", then, refers to) the social
> > constructs of "woman" and "man". This is now thought by
> feminists (except
> > for me...) to be hopelessly passe. But the reasons for this
> have nothing
> > whatsoever to do with the fact that "sex" is also used as shorthand for
> > sexual intercourse. (Over here people say "wanna fuck?", but
> I accept that
> > over there, people may say "do you want to have sex?".)
>
> **Actually, the number of euphemisms is quite extensive -- some rather
> comic. Should a form ask for ones "gender" or "sex" or is either truly
> correct??
>
> >
> > Talking of over there and over here... the actor in Scoobydoo
> was on one of
> > our main chat shows tonight; nice man; he wasn't used to our
> quaint customs
> > like guests sitting around boozing together, and he arrived "on stage"
> > *hammered*.
> >
> > Back to sex and sex. I see no need for confusion. I'd say it's obvious
> > that laws that promote sexual equality aren't about the right
> of individual
> > A to "have as much sex" as individual B. As for "gender" as a
> pomo term,
> > well, as my mini-drone suggests, "gender" as a non-grammatical term is
> > hardly new.
> >
> > Are you winding me up?
>
> **Nah, honestly not confident of correct usage -- (also still confused
> by the plural of person as well: "people" or "persons")??.
>
> > That isn't a hostile question. I thought people knew
> > about the basic sex-gender usage/s, if not about the more
> arcane aspects of
> > the more recent stuff.
>
> **It's not solely about generalities, but rather part of instruction --
> would like to direct the students correctly.
>
> >
> > If this is a bit frivolous, it's because I'm still thinking (benignly)
> > about ScoobyDoo's hammered friend.
> >
>
> **My thoughts at present: looking forward to semester's end and a break
> from papers, grades, and administrators...
>
> TC,
>
> /Steve Cameron, NJ
>
> >
> >
> > Judy Evans
> > jaye@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>[mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Steven G. Cameron
> >>Sent: 07 May 2004 20:25
> >>To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: grades & kleenex
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>**Is someone identified by sex (not gender) or engage in it?? My
> >>confusion is: whether it has always been ok to use "sex" when "gender"
> >>is a more appropriate word, or if "gender" is just a pomo term, exiling
> >>"sex" to the act. Is it a question of (modern) usage or is one truly
> >>preferred??
> >>
> >>TC,
> >>
> >>/Steve Cameron, NJ
> >>
> >>Judith Evans wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>>**Is it acceptable to use "gender" and "sex" as synonyms
> >>>>(interchangeably)??
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>No. I take the (old-fashioned) view that sex is a designation based on
> >>>biology, gender a social construct. But when I talk about
> >>
> >>grammar I do say
> >>
> >>>"gender" as that is customary. Mea culpa?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Judy Evans
> >>>jaye@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>>From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>[mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Steven G. Cameron
> >>>>Sent: 07 May 2004 19:42
> >>>>To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: grades & kleenex
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Paul Stone wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>At 02:07 PM 5/7/2004, you wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>>But I didn't know we knew the teacher's sex.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>**Is it acceptable to use "gender" and "sex" as synonyms
> >>>>(interchangeably)??
> >>>>
> >>>>TC,
> >>>>
> >>>>/Steve Cameron, NJ
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
> >>>>digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
> >>>digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
> >>digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
> > digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
> digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html
>
------------------------------------------------------------------
To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html
Other related posts:
