[lit-ideas] Re: grades & kleenex
- From: "Judith Evans" <judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 04:13:31 +0100
Oh I know what concerns you. I am simply pointing to the teacher's reason
for not saying (e.g.)
"A hero is only a hero if he has some fear, some moment of
wariness; he is concerned how the action will effect others or the
situation.".
I'm not denying that they chose a bad solution to the problem (of
non-gender-neutral language).
I too am concerned about "effect" for "affect".
>>>>>>>>
And "they are
concerned how the action will effect others or the situation." lacked any
reference
(though I did not give enough context to make that clear) -- "the action"
leapt out of the blue and there was no appropriate reason to use a definite
article.
>>>
But prima facie, the meaning is clear: "the action" is the one contemplated
by a/the hero, the action that should induce "some fear, some moment of
wariness". There is to me an ambiguity in the phrase, in the meaning of
"some fear", but that may be because I believe (trivially, perhaps) that
without fear for the self, there cannot be courage: "A coward dies a
thousand deaths..." seems to me quite simply wrong. But that is not perhaps
what the teacher is saying, given their failure to separate "fear" and
"moment of wariness", the latter referring to care for others, I am sure.
>>>
But if I'm preparing text for students to copy,
memorize, and spit back to me it's another matter.
>>
it's the copying, memorizing and spitting out that worries me -- however
good the initial text.
>>>
The grades-for-kleenex
issue does not seem to me entirely unrelated to teachers not knowing their
basic
subject matter.
>>
if you mean that educational institutions are and have been all too often
under-resourced and under-funded, and the teachers, poorly paid, I would
agree.
Your suggestion that this teacher "may have plied her way with tissues" is
to me a rather different type of comment.
Judy Evans
jaye@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of JulieReneB@xxxxxxx
Sent: 07 May 2004 03:12
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: grades & kleenex
I think that the issue here (or at least my issue) is that the teacher wrote
"he/she" in the first half of the second and "they" in the second half. If
there had been some consistency, it would have been okay either way; but to
use
a singular in the first, then a substitutionary plural pronoun in the same
sentece, grates. "Effects" instead of "affects" grieves me. And "they are
concerned how the action will effect others or the situation." lacked any
reference
(though I did not give enough context to make that clear) -- "the action"
leapt out of the blue and there was no appropriate reason to use a definite
article. Granted, I write sloppily here, and in my notes to myself, and in
scribbled notes to family members. But if I'm preparing text for students
to copy,
memorize, and spit back to me it's another matter. The grades-for-kleenex
issue does not seem to me entirely unrelated to teachers not knowing their
basic
subject matter.
Julie Krueger
========Original Message========
Subj:[lit-ideas] Re: grades & kleenex
Date:5/6/2004 7:34:01 PM Central Daylight Time
From:ritchierd@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To:lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent on:
on 5/6/04 5:17 PM, Judith Evans at judithevans001@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> I said the teacher's words were
>
> "an attempt, albeit flawed, to cope with the problem." and
>
> "'They' third person singular is perfectly acceptable, and not only of
> late."
>
> That you read this as an endorsement of
>
>> He/she agreeing with "they"?
>
> is perhaps your problem.
>
Could you provide an example of the acceptable use you have in mind?
What is he/she if not third person singular? And if it is replaced in a
second iteration in a sentence with "they," I would say there is a problem
of agreement. What am I not understanding?
David Ritchie
Portland, Oregon
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