In a message dated 6/8/2010 1:25:39, rpaul@xxxxxxxx writes: To 'beg the question' was coined as a rather over-literal translation of the Latin phrase 'petitio principii'. The Latin version was itself a translation of Greek text 'en archei aiteisthai' taken from Aristotle's Prior Analytics. The phrase was known in English by at least 1581, at which date it was recorded by William Clarke: "Ffiij, I say this is still to begge the question." The logical constructs that Aristotle was describing were statements which assume the truth that one is attempting to prove. Those might be questions which have an assertion smuggled into them, like 'Why has England fewer trees per acre than any other country in Europe?'. Or, more commonly, the fallacious reasoning that we now usually call a 'circular argument'. For example, 'He must be speaking the truth because he never lies'. The 'truth' being assumed in advance isn't always so blatant." It would be good to revise the range of examples discussed by Aristotle in that rather boring book of his, the Prior Analytics --. And then blame HIM (Cicero?) who used 'petitio principii'. "aitesthai" is indeed, Greek for 'beg' -- also used for 'want': "I want a beer" -- Usually, the context determines what use is meant. If the utterer does not display money, it means 'beg'. If he does, it means, "want" or 'want to buy'. 'en arkhei' is a prepositional phrase with 'en', and the feminine noun, arkhe, which also means "Government" (as in 'an-archy' -- lack of government or authority). Strictly, in Greek, it means 'start' (rather than finish -- and there is only ONE principle -- NOT 'principle point'. In Latin, for lack of prepositional clauses, the genitive is used, 'principii', and the nominalisation becomes a feminine form ("petitio") which is merely the infinitive in the middle voice of Greek. The Greeks distinguished between the 'active' (voice), the passive (voice) and what they called a "MIDDLE" voice, explained thus by Diodorus Chronos: "The middle voice is between the active and the passive" but surely he was begging for it. J. L. Speranza Bordighera, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html