John Wager wrote: "... I offer the observation that marriage affects agontology greatly. Just today, I have had the experience of being asked at least three times if I'm sure that I know that I know that I (a) took out the trash, (b) was careful not to spill any yellow paint on the cabinet fronts being re-stained by my wife in the basement, and (c) called the man about the deck repair. Such experiences are probably the most common example of whether just "knowing" or having to "KNOW that you know" are more than just academic exercises." I agree with Robert that knowledge involves mental states and, with John, some degree of awareness of this knowledge. But, knowledge is also related to activities in the world so that we can make judgments about other people's claims to knowledge on the basis of the things they do or do not do. Using Wittgenstein's example, we can be confident that a child knows how to add, not when they say '1+1=2', but rather when they can carry on from there. The proposition by itself is not sufficient for knowledge, nor is making the claim to know. It seems to me that knowledge is not simple, being neither solely a mental state, nor a proposition, nor an activity. Rather, knowledge seems to be the combination of these three. To add to what John wrote, having children can also be helpful in thinking about these matters. My oldest, when reminded about some chore or duty, often replies that she knows she has to do it. I have been reduced to responding that I don't care what she knows, instead I care about what she does. I also am pretty confident in saying that when my wife asks me if I am sure I took out the trash, she is not asking about a mental state but whether she will see a full rubbish bin if she walks into the kitchen. Sincerely, Phil Enns Indonesia ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html