Eric Yost wrote: "The question nagging at me is "How can we know that until we demand that government try to do so?" Ever since the Dark Ages, churches have filled gaps in social responsibility, but we don't really know what governments can or cannot do until they try." What a peculiar way of thinking about government. Imagine asking that question before the 19th century. It seems that in the 20th century there was the transition from the nation-state, with its notion of leaders and the people, to the bureaucratic state, identified with its functionaries. That is, many people think of government as that which is there to do things for people. Now, in a sense, this is true. Government does the things smaller civil groups can't do. But from where do we get the idea that government is supposed to do all things excepting the things it can be shown to not be able to do? Why think that government might have a great store of abilities not yet discovered? Does it make sense to say that we don't really know what managers can or cannot do until they try? Rather, don't we talk about managers as having particular roles and when they fulfill those roles, they are doing a good job? Government, and its bureaucracy, has a specific role and when it fulfils this role, it is doing what it is supposed to do. If the citizenry add or subtract from that role, then what government is supposed to do, changes. What is not the case is government having an a priori determined role. I had written: "It is the strength of being religious that allows one to extend the notion of the neighbour to include all human beings." to which Eric replied: "But wouldn't a well-developed sense of civic virtue do the same on the local level? 'This raving alcoholic tramp is my fellow citizen' should work as well as 'this raving alcoholic tramp is also a child of God.' The difference seems to be scope--citizens versus all humans." At the local level, yes. At this level, the notion of 'fellow citizen' might be sufficient. The problem comes when the Other isn't a fellow citizen. I am a Canadian and virtually all the people suffering from the effects of Katrina are not. At this point, civic virtue is no longer applicable. Is there another kind of virtue that would provide a robust enough account of our concern for the Other, when that Other is not a fellow citizen? One candidate is humanism, but I have found this to be remarkably thin for the kind of work it is supposed to do. Given the religion bashing so popular on this list, I thought it appropriate to suggest that the religious is an obvious candidate. In the case of Christianity, not only is love of the neighbour, where the neighbour might be any other human being, a duty, it is a virtue. This combination of duty and virtue is, to my mind, superior to the alternatives. Sincerely, Phil Enns Toronto, ON ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html