[lit-ideas] Re: Will Britain accept Sharia Law?

  • From: "Veronica Caley" <molleo1@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 18:24:33 -0400

Judy:The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided that 
both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their case.

Judy, do you happen to know, or have ever heard, about women being threatened 
into agreement  to any of this, such as in divorce or custody issues?

The reason I ask is because I know of a second generation Muslim woman (my 
friend) who got married in a mosque without a state marriage license which is 
required.  She couldn't get a divorce without her husband agreeing.  She won't 
tell me but I think she paid him to obtain consent.
The person giving the divorce is the imam.

I can't imagine a Catholic, Protestant or Jewish clergy person officiating at a 
marriage without a state license.  It's required.

Veronica Caley

Milford, MI
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Judith Evans 
  To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 4:50 AM
  Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Will Britain accept Sharia Law?

        Sigh...  all this has been discussed here before.

        Sharia tribunals in the UK can be set up because of a clause in the 
Arbitration Act 1996.I quote:

        Under the act, the sharia courts are classified as arbitration 
tribunals. The rulings of arbitration tribunals are binding in law, provided 
that both parties in the dispute agree to give it the power to rule on their 

        the perceived problem is not that the courts exist, the perceived 
problem is that 



        can make rulings which can be enforced by county and high courts. The 
act allows disputes to be resolved using alternatives like tribunals. This 
method is called alternative dispute resolution


        Muslim tribunal courts started passing sharia judgments in August 2007. 
They have dealt with more than 100 cases that range from Muslim divorce and 
inheritance to nuisance neighbours

        ........tribunal courts have settled six cases of domestic violence 
between married couples, working in tandem with the police investigations.


        Jewish Beth Din courts operate under the same provision in the 
Arbitration Act and resolve civil cases, ranging from divorce to business 
disputes. They have existed in Britain for more than 100 years, and previously 
operated under a precursor to the act. 

        Politicians and church leaders expressed concerns that this could mark 
the beginnings of a “parallel legal system” based on sharia for some British 


        I see Soern Kern is your source.  S/he is an obsessed ranter against, 
for example, sharia--compliant mortgages.  S/he is also a liar, if only by 
implication, that is, Kern's Britain's V. Muslim Immigration says -- and you 
repeat --


        “By any measure, the Muslim population in Britain has skyrocketed over 
the past ten years. 


        “In just two decades, the percentage of the British population born 
abroad has doubled to over 11%

        but as *The Telegraph*, bastion of right-wingery, says when discussing 
that very figure 


        A key factor has been the increase in migrant workers from Poland, 
Lithuania and six other eastern European countries that joined the EU in 2004.


        **Roman Catholics**, Lawrence, **Roman Catholics**.


        “The Cross Party Group for Balanced Migration, a bi-partisan group that 
is attempting to protect and re-establish a sense of British national identity, 
has called for all parties in Britain to commit to keeping the population below 
70 million.


        Yes.  Or no.  The Group wants to balance emigration and immigration.  
Nazir Ahmed, Lord Ahmed, first Muslim life peer, is a member. (He's a slightly 
controversial figure.) So is Tristram Hunt, who's basically pretty left wing. 
The group is a somewhat mixed bunch, with some unsavoury elements;  but their 
web page will give you a better idea of the issues than Kern will.

        You say, Lawrence,


        Living in America, I have heard dissidents saying the “American Way of 
Life” isn’t anything that needs to be preserved. The Constitution was okay in 
its day, but now, they say, we need something new and more relevant. Are there 
people saying things like that in Britain?


        No.  NO.  There's a regular brouhaha about "Europe" making "us" observe 
human rights' laws, a brouhaha fomented, of course, by the very people who go 
on about "immigrants" when they mean "people who aren't white".  These people 
want to "preserve" a previous lack of human rights and anti-discrimination law. 
 The people who oppose them are not "dissidents".

        Sharia law tribunals, you need to understand, do not affect anybody who 
does not choose to be affected by them.  They have the same effect on my life 
as Beth Din tribunals or Roman Catholic courts, i.e., none.  They are subject 
to British law.

        That doesn't mean there are no grounds for concern here.  But they are 
not what you think.  

        You ask


        What percentage of the non-Islamic and Moderate Islamic (as defined by 
Hudson New York) Brits care if their legal system is replaced by Sharia Law?


        100 per cent would care if that were the issue.  But it is not. The 
issue is the existence and in some instances the operation of Sharia tribunals, 
for consenting parties, subject to British law.  There's concern about 
marriage/divorce cases, but please note, Sharia tribunals have jurisdiction 
only over *Muslim-contracted* marriages, just as Roman Catholic courts have 
jurisdiction  only over *Roman Catholic contracted* marriages. (Etc..)  -- see 


        I recall that Communists in an earlier era considered their loyalty to 
be to the Communist cause (aka the USSR) and not to individual Nations. 


        though it was never quite that simple, the Comintern under Stalin 
certainly did a fair job of subordinating the interests of other CPs to the 
Soviet Union's interest.


        Do non-Fundamentalist-Islamic Brits feel something like that, i.e., 
that their loyalty is to a European Welfare state system (or the like) and not 
to the cultures of European nations?


        ?  I thought you were concerned about Sharia law, not European welfare 
state and human rights legislation.  I really don't know why you ask, however, 
if British Muslims do feel loyal to the latter, they are to be applauded.  


        It is hard for me to understand why a nation (Britain if one can 
believe the writer of the above article) would choose to accept a primitive 
medieval religious-legal system in lieu of the system that Britain developed on 
its own.


        it hasn't


        Well, if the British have created laws that prevent citizens opposing 
creeping Sharia Law,


        we haven't

        Judy Evans, Cardiff


        --- On Wed, 7/9/11, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

          From: Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
          Subject: [lit-ideas] Will Britain accept Sharia Law?
          To: "Lit-Ideas " <Lit-Ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
          Date: Wednesday, 7 September, 2011, 0:43



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