[lit-ideas] Re: Where politics hits the grass
- From: Andy <mimi.erva@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 08:34:19 -0800 (PST)
Actually, this is, as I see it, a defense mechanism. The issue is too big, too
outside the ability to manage it, which in fact it is. So what do we do (and
this is not criticism at all, it's just fact, we all do it), we dive into our
heads. And it's another one of God's jokes (I mean that literally, the God
everyone believes in) that the head, that big human brain, minus the heart is a
disembodied, safe place but it absolutely shuts down problem solving. That big
brain is such a liability with nothing good about it. The head and the emotions
need to work together. Instead there's this plexiglass between the two.
--- On Fri, 11/7/08, Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Where politics hits the grass
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 4:20 PM
I'm alternately reminded of Camus and Exupery.
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Andy <mimi.erva@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Reality is more like "kill each other and get over it". Failing that, kill the
messenger and everything will be fine. Hey, maybe an overpolluted,
overpopulated, overstressed planet is not your idea of a problem. And like me,
what can you do about it anyway? And if you say anything about it, boy will
they hate you for it.
--- On Fri, 11/7/08, Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Where politics hits the grass
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 3:59 PM
Reading Irene I'm always reminded of the line from "Child Psychology" by Black
Box Recorder: "Life is unfair. Kill yourself or get over it."
Mike Geary
Memphis
----- Original Message -----
From: Andy
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 12:03 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Where politics hits the grass
Okay, name something redemptive and good that humans have come up with.
Absolutely everything humans have come up with is nonsense. Big deal,
vaccines. Humans find more creative ways to kill each other.
And people are for the most part brainless and heartless, or why is 2/3 of the
world living on $2 a day in cardboard boxes while others light cigars with
money, and child abuse is absolutely rampant and animals are tortured for
food. I didn't apply the word monster, you did. All I did was describe the
reality.
And if you want to do the Pollyanna thing, that's fine. Humans do like to pat
themselves on the back. It also doesn't compute that I should stop caring.
How do you propose I do that?
--- On Fri, 11/7/08, Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Where politics hits the grass
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:51 AM
I'm a little surprised. What on earth motivates you to continue to feel badly
for the monsters that destroy and deplete this entirely screwed up planet of
ours? There are times, Irene, whether I wonder why you wouldn't rather see the
entire thing go up in a mushroom cloud.
Of course, it's hard to measure reality against either Edenic idealism or
catastrophic nihilism.
If people are so little worth saving, so awful, so irredeemable, why does the
experience and trajectory people trouble you so much?
Either you care or you don't .... if we're monsters, you can stop being upset
about it. If we aren't, then we aren't.
You seem to see things in very chiaroscuro tones. If humanity does not follow
the behaviours you believe best for the planet, for vegetable growth, for
animal life, for human children, there's no point to it.
If humanity has areas that behave in ways you perceive as good, it's a waste of
effort or thought, because humanity, the planet are too far gone.
I almost think you don't want there to be anything good or redemptive or
positive.... it would perhaps be an affront in some way to your basic
philosophy, your basic view of the world. I have known a few people for whom a
sense of impending doom and despair keep their lives worth living. But I don't
think you're one of them.
I don't know how to understand it. I keep trying -- and I will keep trying ...
because the best thing I know to do about being human is to try to learn to
think in ways I am not accustomed to.
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:35 PM, Andy <mimi.erva@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I read about it too, but it really saddens me to think of the animals and the
way they're tortured so humans can eat, like there's nothing else they can
eat. Lately it's become a struggle even to go to Wal-Mart or Target because of
the way people treat their children. Sometimes I just can't deal with it.
It's like why do they have children. It's all the same thing, the same
heartlessness, the same brainlessness.
--- On Fri, 11/7/08, Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Where politics hits the grass
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:23 AM
I wasn't suggesting you join an environmental group (or any group) at all. I
think it is encouraging that there are some very real, very practical ways that
our society is addressing both the environmental and economic issues these
days. It encourages me. I like to be aware of things which look hopeful and
encouraging and pragmatic. Reading some of the ideas helps me think outside
the box a little. I like that too.
On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Andy <mimi.erva@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
You're right. But the way I look at it, I'm just one yeast out of almost seven
billion, and I'm absolutely ineffective in swaying others. I did my best on
this list to convince people to vote for Gore in 2000 and I know that all those
good republicans out there voted for Bush anyway. Then they did it again in
2004. Best case scenario they voted for Ralph Nader which is a vote for Bush.
Plus look at all our discussions on pharma. What a waste of time that was in
convincing anybody.
I live my for the most part environmentally conservative little life, which is
to say, I don't eat meat and haven't for decades (tons and tons of pollution
and water saved) and a list of other things that I do personally to save energy
and water and electricity. Beyond that, there's nothing I can do. People
don't care. They love their meat and will not part with it. They think it's a
bother putting on a sweater. They use water like it's always going to be
there. They burn those stupid votive type lights in their windows all night
year round.
If I join an environmental group, what's that going to do? Those few who
care are already implementing changes; the vast majority will glaze over. My
neighbors have no idea about climate change. Can you imagine? No idea. If I
tell them, I'm being their mother and they wouldn't believe it anyway. And
companies like ExxonMobil spend millions advertising against climate change, so
those who even heard of global warming think it's some myth.
The society and the economy have to be rethought from the ground up. We have
to reverse consumerism, get people to want to build the economy around
environmentalism, and that is not going to happen. My efforts to convince
anyone would be quixotic at best. Beyond even all that, it's too late. The
problem if it isn't irreversible just yet will be in the near future.
That's not to say that I don't admire others who are activists, it's just that
I would feel *more* impotent, not less if I were to become active, the way
Cindy Sheehan finally in despair said Americans deserve the government they
have. Maybe the bottom line the way I see it is that the human race is out to
destroy itself, and there's no way I can stop them.
--- On Fri, 11/7/08, Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
From: Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Where politics hits the grass
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 3:02 AM
You say things like "what can be done?" and shrug in resignation, but when
there are real, viable, approaches to solutions out there you aren't interested
in them? Or, rather, you aren't interested in what people who are passionate
about changing things are proposing? That sounds like exactly what you're
describing by "that's the way people are". The irony is that you aren't
interested in glancing at a website or discussing it which actually suggests
specific ways to make the economy thrive by working on the environment...you
seem to just want to complain that no one cares, there aren't any decent ideas,
and no one will pay attention ....wo, say, a website like that...
But whaddo I know.
--
Julie Krueger
--
Julie Krueger
--
Julie Krueger
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