[lit-ideas] Re: Where politics hits the grass
- From: "Julie Krueger" <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 10:20:17 -0600
I'm alternately reminded of Camus and Exupery.
On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 10:07 AM, Andy <mimi.erva@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Reality is more like "kill each other and get over it". Failing that, kill
> the messenger and everything will be fine. Hey, maybe an overpolluted,
> overpopulated, overstressed planet is not your idea of a problem. And like
> me, what can you do about it anyway? And if you say anything about it, boy
> will they hate you for it.
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 11/7/08, Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>* wrote:
>
> From: Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Where politics hits the grass
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 3:59 PM
>
>
> Reading Irene I'm always reminded of the line from "Child Psychology" by
> Black
> Box Recorder: "Life is unfair. Kill yourself or get over it."
>
>
> Mike Geary
> Memphis
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Andy <mimi.erva@xxxxxxxxx>
> *To:* lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> *Sent:* Friday, November 07, 2008 12:03 AM
> *Subject:* [lit-ideas] Re: Where politics hits the grass
>
> Okay, name something redemptive and good that humans have come up
> with. Absolutely everything humans have come up with is nonsense. Big
> deal, vaccines. Humans find more creative ways to kill each other.
>
> And people are for the most part brainless and heartless, or why is 2/3 of
> the world living on $2 a day in cardboard boxes while others light cigars
> with money, and child abuse is absolutely rampant and animals are tortured
> for food. I didn't apply the word monster, you did. All I did was describe
> the reality.
>
> And if you want to do the Pollyanna thing, that's fine. Humans do like to
> pat themselves on the back. It also doesn't compute that I should stop
> caring. How do you propose I do that?
>
>
> --- On *Fri, 11/7/08, Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>* wrote:
>
> From: Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Where politics hits the grass
> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:51 AM
>
> I'm a little surprised. What on earth motivates you to continue to feel
> badly for the monsters that destroy and deplete this entirely screwed up
> planet of ours? There are times, Irene, whether I wonder why you wouldn't
> rather see the entire thing go up in a mushroom cloud.
>
> Of course, it's hard to measure reality against either Edenic idealism or
> catastrophic nihilism.
>
> If people are so little worth saving, so awful, so irredeemable, why does
> the experience and trajectory people trouble you so much?
>
> Either you care or you don't .... if we're monsters, you can stop being
> upset about it. If we aren't, then we aren't.
>
> You seem to see things in very chiaroscuro tones. If humanity does not
> follow the behaviours you believe best for the planet, for vegetable growth,
> for animal life, for human children, there's no point to it.
>
> If humanity has areas that behave in ways you perceive as good, it's a
> waste of effort or thought, because humanity, the planet are too far gone.
>
> I almost think you don't want there to be anything good or redemptive or
> positive.... it would perhaps be an affront in some way to your basic
> philosophy, your basic view of the world. I have known a few people for
> whom a sense of impending doom and despair keep their lives worth living.
> But I don't think you're one of them.
>
> I don't know how to understand it. I keep trying -- and I will keep trying
> ... because the best thing I know to do about being human is to try to learn
> to think in ways I am not accustomed to.
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:35 PM, Andy <mimi.erva@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> I read about it too, but it really saddens me to think of the animals
>> and the way they're tortured so humans can eat, like there's nothing else
>> they can eat. Lately it's become a struggle even to go to Wal-Mart or
>> Target because of the way people treat their children. Sometimes I just
>> can't deal with it. It's like why do they have children. It's all the same
>> thing, the same heartlessness, the same brainlessness.
>>
>>
>> --- On *Fri, 11/7/08, Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>* wrote:
>>
>> From: Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
>> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Where politics hits the grass
>> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 5:23 AM
>>
>>
>> I wasn't suggesting you join an environmental group (or any group) at
>> all. I think it is encouraging that there are some very real, very
>> practical ways that our society is addressing both the environmental and
>> economic issues these days. It encourages me. I like to be aware of things
>> which look hopeful and encouraging and pragmatic. Reading some of the ideas
>> helps me think outside the box a little. I like that too.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 6, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Andy <mimi.erva@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> You're right. But the way I look at it, I'm just one yeast out of
>>> almost seven billion, and I'm absolutely ineffective in swaying others. I
>>> did my best on this list to convince people to vote for Gore in 2000 and I
>>> know that all those good republicans out there voted for Bush anyway. Then
>>> they did it again in 2004. Best case scenario they voted for Ralph Nader
>>> which is a vote for Bush. Plus look at all our discussions on pharma. What
>>> a waste of time that was in convincing anybody.
>>>
>>> I live my for the most part environmentally conservative little life,
>>> which is to say, I don't eat meat and haven't for decades (tons and tons of
>>> pollution and water saved) and a list of other things that I do personally
>>> to save energy and water and electricity. Beyond that, there's nothing I
>>> can do. People don't care. They love their meat and will not part with
>>> it. They think it's a bother putting on a sweater. They use water like
>>> it's always going to be there. They burn those stupid votive type lights in
>>> their windows all night year round.
>>>
>>> If I join an environmental group, what's that going to do? Those few who
>>> care are already implementing changes; the vast majority will glaze over.
>>> My neighbors have no idea about climate change. Can you imagine? No idea.
>>> If I tell them, I'm being their mother and they wouldn't believe it
>>> anyway. And companies like ExxonMobil spend millions advertising against
>>> climate change, so those who even heard of global warming think it's some
>>> myth.
>>>
>>> The society and the economy have to be rethought from the ground up. We
>>> have to reverse consumerism, get people to want to build the economy around
>>> environmentalism, and that is not going to happen. My efforts to convince
>>> anyone would be quixotic at best. Beyond even all that, it's too late. The
>>> problem if it isn't irreversible just yet will be in the near future.
>>>
>>> That's not to say that I don't admire others who are activists, it's just
>>> that I would feel *more* impotent, not less if I were to become active, the
>>> way Cindy Sheehan finally in despair said Americans deserve the government
>>> they have. Maybe the bottom line the way I see it is that the human race is
>>> out to destroy itself, and there's no way I can stop them.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On *Fri, 11/7/08, Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>* wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Julie Krueger <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Where politics hits the grass
>>> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Date: Friday, November 7, 2008, 3:02 AM
>>>
>>> You say things like "what can be done?" and shrug in resignation, but
>>> when there are real, viable, approaches to solutions out there you aren't
>>> interested in them? Or, rather, you aren't interested in what people who
>>> are passionate about changing things are proposing? That sounds like
>>> exactly what you're describing by "that's the way people are". The irony is
>>> that you aren't interested in glancing at a website or discussing it which
>>> actually suggests specific ways to make the economy thrive by working on the
>>> environment...you seem to just want to complain that no one cares, there
>>> aren't any decent ideas, and no one will pay attention ....wo, say, a
>>> website like that...
>>>
>>> But whaddo I know.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Julie Krueger
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Julie Krueger
>
>
>
>
>
--
Julie Krueger
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