By coincidence, I happen to be reading a book that speaks to the question that occasioned this thread. The book is _The (Mis)behavior of Markets: A Fractal View of Risk Ruin, and Reward_ by Benoit Mandelbrot, the father of fractal geometry, and Richard L. Hudson, formerly the European regional editor for the Wall Street Journal. The voice throughout is Mandelbrot's. "Consider," he says, "two ways of looking at the world: as a Garden of Eden or as a black box." "The first is cause-and-effect, or deterministic. Here, every particle, leaf and creature is in its apointed place, and, if only we had the vast knowledge of God, everything could be understood and predicted.... "Enough. How realistic is that? We cannot know everything. Physicists abandoned that pipedream during the twentieth century, after quantum theory and, in a different way, after chaos theory. Instead, the learned to think of the world in the second way, as a black box. We can see what goes into the box and what comes out of it, but not what happens inside; we can only draw inferences about the odds of input A producing output Z." Interestingly, too, Mandelbrot not only likens the scientist's imagination to that of the artist, achievement in both fields depending on a willingness to discard conventional wisdom, he frequently cites artists in relation to his own thinking. Here he is talking about the nature of fractals. He says, "A fractal has a special kind of invariance or symmetry that relates a whole to tis parts: The whole can be broken into smaller parts, each an echo of the whole. Think of a cauliflower: Each floret can be broken off and is, itself, a cauliflower in minature. Painters, trained to observe nature closely, have know this without waiting for science." Here he cites Eugene Delacroix who himself refers to Swedenborg and concludes the remark quoted by Mandelbrot by saying, "I often said that the branches of a tree were themselves complete smaller trees; pieces of focks are similar to larger rocks, small handfuls of dirt to very much bigger heaps. I am convinced that many more such examples could be found. A single feather is made of a million feathers." Clearly the difference between the ways in which scientists and artists perceive the world is less sharply defined that some of us would like to believe. John Mc ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html