[lit-ideas] Re: Tilting at windmills
- From: Andy <mimi.erva@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 05:11:12 -0700 (PDT)
I do appreciate your comments and the update regarding the new generation of
windmills. I don't remember my source for the information but I have this
vague idea they were talking about somewhere in the south, possibly around
Tennesse (i.e., not California) along the path of a migratory route. The sites
don't mention the worst persecution of birds ever to have been undertaken,
bringing some species to the brink of extinction, and that is by humans for
fashion purposes at the turn of the 19th and 20th centuries. Cats pale in
comparison.
Please note, I am a tree hugger. I do believe it's critically important to get
off of fossil fuels. However, realistically we aren't going to get off of
fossil fuels, at least not for the same returns we're getting from fossil fuels
(coal, oil, gas) or nuclear. Where wind power is effective at generating
electricity, it needs to be backed up by fossil fuel because wind
is intermittent, from still to breezy to windy. Quoting: "Because of the wide
variability and unpredictability of wind speeds, wind generators are not
dispatchable [i.e. there when you need them], which means they cannot be
depended on to provide power on demand. … For instance, in a "heat storm" in
California in July 2006, the electric power system was severely strained due to
the unusually high demand for electric power for air conditioning. At the
time, the wind was blowing at low levels in the areas where wind generators
were located, so available wind power was well
below the rated capacity. … Because the local electric power grid had a high
level of dispatchable electric power available, the grid did not fail. …
However, had wind accounted for a larger fraction of electric power capacity,
blackouts would almost certainly have occurred."
Another quote: "Low electric power production from wind has been a problem in
Texas, which also has an aggressive wind power program [oil billionaire T.
Boone Pickens is behind a lot of it]. The regional electric power authority –
the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) – analyzed the capacity
factor of wind and determined that only "8.7% of the installed wind capability
can be counted on as dependable capacity during the peak demand period for the
next year." In forecasts for 2009 hot summer demand periods, ERCOT estimated
that 8.6% of the state's wind power capacity could actually be counted as
reliable."
Other factors to make wind on any scale unfeasible are that wind farms need to
be located in windy places. In the U.S. those places are 1,200 to 1,500 miles
from where the electricity will be used. Plus wind energy is very expensive
and is only viable, when it is viable, because of very heavy subsidies by the
federal government, meaning taxation. In the U.S. taxation is unpopular to say
the least.
Solar is worse in terms of scalability. Solar also requires rare earth metals
that are, in addition to being
I do appreciate your comments and the update regarding the new generation of
windmills. I don't remember my source for the information but I have this
vague idea they were talking about somewhere in the south, possibly around
Tennessee (i.e., not California) along the path of a migratory route. The
sites don't mention the worst persecution of birds ever to have been
undertaken, bringing some species to the brink of extinction, and that is by
humans for fashion purposes at the turn of the 19th and 20th centuries. Cats
pale in comparison.
Please note, I am a tree hugger. I do believe it's critically important to get
off of fossil fuels. However, realistically we aren't going to get off of
fossil fuels, at least not for the same returns we're getting from fossil fuels
(coal, oil, gas) or nuclear. Where wind power is effective at generating
electricity, it needs to be backed up by fossil fuel because wind
is intermittent, from still to breezy to windy. Quoting: "Because of the wide
variability and unpredictability of wind speeds, wind generators are not
dispatchable [i.e. there when you need them], which means they cannot be
depended on to provide power on demand. … For instance, in a "heat storm" in
California in July 2006, the electric power system was severely strained due to
the unusually high demand for electric power for air conditioning. At the
time, the wind was blowing at low levels in the areas where wind generators
were located, so available wind power was well
below the rated capacity. … Because the local electric power grid had a high
level of dispatchable electric power available, the grid did not fail. …
However, had wind accounted for a larger fraction of electric power capacity,
blackouts would almost certainly have occurred."
Another quote: "Low electric power production from wind has been a problem in
Texas, which also has an aggressive wind power program [oil billionaire T.
Boone Pickens is behind a lot of it]. The regional electric power authority –
the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) – analyzed the capacity
factor of wind and determined that only "8.7% of the installed wind capability
can be counted on as dependable capacity during the peak demand period for the
next year." In forecasts for 2009 hot summer demand periods, ERCOT estimated
that 8.6% of the state's wind power capacity could actually be counted as
reliable."
Other factors to make wind on any scale unfeasible are that wind farms need to
be located in windy places. In the U.S. those places are 1,200 to 1,500 miles
from where the electricity will be used. Plus wind energy is very expensive
and is only viable, when it is viable, because of very heavy subsidies by the
federal government, meaning taxation. In the U.S. taxation is unpopular to say
the least.
Solar is worse in terms of scalability. Solar also requires rare earth metals
that are, in addition to being devastating to the environment, nearly 100%
located in China, where environmental standards are laxer. The worst of the
worst are the biofuels. Biofuels are often downright negative in returns,
especially corn. Sugarcane is better by about 7 or 8 times, but then corn is
little above zero.
Other problems are that, even if renewables were scaled up literally thousands
of times, they still wouldn't be more than a tiny fraction (something like 3 or
5%) of available electricity in the U.S. Germany's power generation is said
to be 30% wind generated, but that has to be best case scenario (what's called
"nameplate"). The average is probably much lower and undoubtedly the wind is
backed up by something else. Japan is said to be voting down nuclear power.
That means they will be using more oil or coal (meaning less for us and dirtier
air), or they will be sitting in the dark on bullet trains that won't go
anywhere. It'll be interesting to see how that shakes out. Renewables (other
than the mirage of biofuels) also generate only electricity, which is
important, absolutely. However, transportation runs on liquid fuels. There is
no infrastructure (meaning gas stations, etc.) to support electric vehicles.
Our oil infrastructure
took decades to put in place; an electricity-based transportation
infrastructure will also take decades. On any scale electric transportation
would have to be subsidized by the government, which even if Rush Limbaugh
didn't shout it down, is broke. Electric vehicles today need to be powered by
coal, at least in the U.S., which is where we get most of our electricity.
Coal is the most polluting of the fossil fuels (although fracking gas might be
worse but there's a brain fever around fracking right now).
I do have one problem with the book I'm reading, which is that they say coal is
still relatively abundant. Other sources that I've read say that the best
coal, like the best oil, all the low hanging fruit, is gone, burned up. What's
left is the dirtiest and hardest to get. They forgot to mention that.
I'm all for renewables. Unfortunately, I'm finding out that reality is
extremely complicated. Renewables on any scale are just not a meaningful
reality right now or in the foreseeable future. What we need is to rethink our
entire way of life, our extremely enery intense and unsustainable way of life,
and scale it way down, including our reliance on cars and trucks. It's very
do-able and would be virtually guaranteed to result in greater satisfaction and
happiness. However, it's not going to happen any time soon. Not if Rush
Limbaugh has anything to say about it. Or Senator James Inhofe, or...
Andy
________________________________
From: "cblists@xxxxxxxx" <cblists@xxxxxxxx>
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:18 AM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Tilting at windmills
On 28-Mar-12, at 2:06 AM, Andy wrote:
> BTW, windmills that generate electricity kill birds. I've been reading that
> wind power is little more than useless.
Here in Schleswig-Holstein (the northernmost province of Germany) over 30% of
the energy consumed is produced by wind energy. I don't see how this can be
termed as 'little more than useless'.
No form of energy is 'free' or without costs to the environment, etc., that
usually don't show up on the 'balance sheets' and I am all in favour of
reduction of demand as opposed to promotion of 'alternate' sources to maintain
current consumption levels.
As to the danger to birds - I quote from
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2010/07/29/are-wind-turbines-a-danger-to-birds/
... the number of birds killed by wind turbines in the US is between 20,000 and
37,000 annually.
[Compare this to even the lowest of] annual estimates for deaths in the US from
other causes ...
Collisions with buildings: 97 – 976 million
Collisions with high tension lines: 130 – 1,000 million
Collisions with communication towers: 4 – 50 million
Collisions with cars: more than 80 million
Toxic chemicals: more than 72 million
Cats: more than a billion
[See also:]
http://www.windturbinesnow.com/wind-turbines-birds.htm
http://www.treehugger.com/renewable-energy/common-eco-myth-wind-turbines-kill-birds.html
Chris Bruce.
humming along to a
well-known Dylan song,
in Kiel, Germany
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off,
digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html
Other related posts:
