I see. But In that case, I am not sure that I am willing to invest time and
effort in a group that would be only a supplement to the existing group. In
particular, it might be difficult to explain to the people whom I invite
that the group they are joining is only a supplement to another group they
know nothing about. It might then be more practicable for me to establish a
group that would not be connected to Literature and Ideas in name. Of
course, one might think that terms like literature and ideas are not under
copyright, but who knows if I might be sued.
On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 9:38 PM Torgeir Fjeld <t.fjeld1@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear Omar and all,
While there's no objection from here regarding the wish to establish a
presence for the mailing list lit-ideas on a social media platform, we are
not in agreement with regard to the status of such a "group." The view from
here is that lit-ideas is a mailing list, and it will continue to exist as
a mailing list for as long as the administrator (Andreas Ramos) sustains
the subscription he has with Freelists. We agree with Mr. Helm that it is
good that it is that way, i.e. we believe that the mailing list should
continue to exist as the torch of literature and ideas, and as the chief
successor of the important innovation PhilLit, which was the mailing list
of the renowned academic journal Philosophy and Literature.
It follows that we regard philosophical and literary topics and
invertventions to form the ground of our existence, and that the time in
which any particular author was born is a secondary consideration. We are
happy to observe that the present discussion has brought out several
cherished and loyal subscribers. It indicates that this mailing list is
very much alive and well.
In conclusion: we would support the establishment of a social media
presence of Literature and Ideas for as long as it doesn't constitute an
attempt at usurping the name and tradition that is embodied in this mailing
list. It should be seen as a supplement, and not as a successor. Any social
media presence should link crearly and honourably to this mailing list,
including insctructions on how to subscribe, etc.
Mvh. / Yours sincerely,
Torgeir Fjeld, PhD
https://torgeirfjeld.com/
On Wed, 27 Mar 2019 at 07:14, Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Okay, since most people are at least not strongly opposed, I think that
we can proceed with the idea of a group on Facebook. Here is a slightly
revised proposal of the group description.
Welcome to Literature and Ideas.
This group is a successor to the mailing list Literature and Ideas. It is
intended to be a forum for discussion of literature, philosophy and
intellectual ideas. Political and religious topics are also acceptable as
long as the discussion is kept civil. Posts are not previewed, but the
administrators are within their discretion to remove offensive or
irrelevant posts. Advertising, pornography, spamming or religious
proselytizing are not allowed. Memes and quotations are to be used
sparingly. It is recommended to write at least a few sentences of your own
for an OP.
The operative language of the group is English. While your English does
not have to be perfect, some attention to grammar and punctuation would be
appreciated. We should refrain from using personal insults and we should do
our best to avoid logical fallacies. Have a good time here.
On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 6:02 AM John McCreery <john.mccreery@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Julie,
Just want to say that I, too, have learned a lot by participating in
Lit-Ideas. Thus, the sentimental attachment that keeps me here. Is
sentiment alone a sufficient reason to keep the bar open?
John
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 27, 2019, at 13:29, Julie Campbell <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I discovered Phil-List 15 years ago, when list-serve formats was new to
me. I lurked, fly on the wall, and listened to the Literati discusse
Important Things. I learned...more than I could have imagined. I
eventually dared to ask a question here, state an opinion there, and became
comfortable in my alleged anonymity. I only look at FB rarely, although
my discipline does not extend to sms format — such instaneous gratification
we assume will be there!
I have always, and will always be, grateful for this. It keeps me less
cynical than I would have been otherwise.
On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 7:22 PM John McCreery <john.mccreery@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Torgeir,Julie Campbell 573-881-6889
With all due respect, our problem has less to do with medium that (1)
topic and (2) participants.
TOPIC: there has been no discussion here of recent philosophy.
Wittgenstein was born in 1929, Paul Grice in 1913, Pierre Bourdieu in 1930,
Heidegger in 1889. All four might still have something significant to say
to us, but with no consideration of how our world differs from theirs and
endless repetition of old talking points, the conversation is, to me at
least, tedious.
PARTICIPANTS: Our numbers shrink. Our members age. How do we recruit
new members? What do we say to them that makes joining our club attractive?
In a private conversation with Omar via Facebook Messenger, I described
my interest in parallel developments in several fields, where thoughtful
scholars are exploring ways to move beyond what A.N. Whitehead called the
“bifurcation of the world” into True and False, Essential and Superficial,
Reason and Emotion, mathematical substance and epiphenomenal fluff. I
think of the work of Chicago sociologist Andrew Abbott, French
anthropologist Dominique Desjeux, physicists turned management consultants,
Jean Boulton, et al, cognitive linguist George Lakoff, Belgian philosopher
of science Isabel Stenger. I am also interested in some serious thinking
going on in Sinology, Francois Jullien’s *Propensity of Things, *and
Michael Pruett’s *The Way, *which discusses Classical Chinese thinkers
as offering diverse approaches to dealing with urgent issues in 21st
century life.
There’s a lot going on. Here I feel stuck in a dinosaur’s footprint
with fossilization well under way. Sentiment says, stay with these old
friends. Curiosity says, are you mad?
John
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 27, 2019, at 7:40, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Yeah, the alternative to Lit-Ideas was Theoria. I was initially there
rather than on Lit-Ideas, but found it less pleasant than I expected and so
moved over to Lit-Ideas. I used to get in a lot of arguments with Andreas
Ramos on Phil-Lit, but at about the time I transferred from Theoria to
Lit-Ideas he had backed out as an active participant.
There was a medical doctor from Israel, I can’t recall her name, but
she went to Theoria at the same time all of the rest of us did. She and I
used to be on the same side of most arguments. When I moved over to
Lit-Ideas she hoped I would come back to Theoria, but I told her that I
found Kramer too dictatorial for my taste and suggested that she move over
to Lit-Ideas but she said she had been so offended by Andreas that she
would never join a listserv that had his name on it. Alas.
Lawrence
*From:* lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [
mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ;<lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]
*On Behalf Of *Torgeir Fjeld
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 26, 2019 3:11 PM
*To:* lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [lit-ideas] Re: The value of lit-ideas
Dear all,
Phil-lit, the precursor to lit-ideas, was a mailing list started to
maintain supplementary, running debate on the side of the journal
Philosophy and Literature back in the 90s. It was a novel attempt at
bringing technology and philosophy together in scholarly thought and
practice. When the person with administrator privileges after heated debate
decided to close the list down two successor lists emerged. According to
reports, one of these lists were short-lived, while the other, lit-ideas,
has continued to host lively discussions for 15 years.
Has the mailing-list format reached the end? It is possible that other
kinds of electronic communication has overtaken what was once a novel
technology, and that it is time to move a companion form of communication
to social media. However, there is no reason not to continue lit-ideas as a
mailing list. The view from here is that any introduction of our forum into
social media should include a reference to the mailing list and its
history. We should also explore the possibility of posting to social media
from e-mail, such as is possible with blogs, so that those without a
subscription to these platform can continue to post. (A similar option
would be to establish some kind of feed of the mailing list on the group
page.)
While it is debatable which of the formats is supplementary, it seems
that a modest and realistic approach to any move into social media would
adhere to the rule of acknowledging our precursors.
Mvh. / Yours sincerely,
Torgeir Fjeld
https://torgeirfjeld.com/
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On Tue, 26 Mar 2019 at 14:00, John McCreery <john.mccreery@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Me, too. Torgeir started this revival. Time he spoke up.
John
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 26, 2019, at 21:59, Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
By the way, where is Torgeir, I would like to hear what he thinks about
this ?
On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 11:43 AM Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
About the group settings, I think closed would be best. We can invite
those whom we want to invite without having to deal with random visitors
(or family members for that matter).
On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 10:43 AM John McCreery <john.mccreery@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Excellent idea.
John
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 26, 2019, at 18:42, Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
We will not close this group or anything. I think Lawrence does not
have FB and we don't want to lose his poetry. Besides, we can use this
group as a sort of meta for the group on FB.
On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 10:35 AM Carol Kirschenbaum <carolkir@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Ok, John. I'm convinced. I have no objections. If I had the patience to
figure out how to upload photos I'd probably have more patience for
facebook. Usually, though, I wind up feeling sadly excluded from all the
travel, the festivities. More distanced, emotionally. Common reaction, I
hear, and actually painful when I see the rare photo of my own
grandchildren. (My age is more disabling than I expected it to be, due to
50 years of rheumatoid arthritis. Travel is no longer on my agenda.)
I guess we're moving!
Regards,
Carol
Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 4 mini ™, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: John McCreery <john.mccreery@xxxxxxxxx>
Date:03/26/2019 1:07 AM (GMT-08:00)
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc:
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: The value of lit-ideas
Carol,
I am not keen on FB. I am tied via FB to all sorts of people in
multiple networks around the world. Can’t expect them to move on my whim.
Also, as I pointed out, FB does have several advantages. For me the ease of
uploading images or video and the ability to edit or delete previous posts
or comments make FB more congenial than our current email format.
Privacy is not a big concern. I am old (turning 75 in August). I am not
worried about people knowing or posting scandalous things that might impact
my career. If II write foolish things, it is no big deal.
Besides, Facebook already allows the creation of closed groups, in
which only members can see what is posted.
John
Sent from my iPad
On Mar 26, 2019, at 16:44, carol kirschenbaum <carolkir@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On Mar 25, 2019, at 10:56 PM, Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Would anyone here be interested in moving lit-ideas to Facebook?
Hi John, Omar & All,
I’m not keen on FB. Will go along with whatever lit-id does. Hate to
lose this email format, though. And isn’t FB about to launch something like
what we already have here, in the name of privacy?
Carol K.
--
https://juliesmusicandlanguagestudio.musicteachershelper.com
