[lit-ideas] Re: The meaning of life
- From: Omar Kusturica <omarkusto@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2008 11:26:52 -0800 (PST)
--- On Fri, 11/28/08, Donal McEvoy <donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
O.K. I believe that it is an interesting philosophical problem, regardless of
whether we perceive it as a serious practical option. In the above discussion,
the key term is 'practical contradiction,' i.e. it is not suggested that
suicide is a practical impossibility obviously, but that it is morally
impermissible because self-contradictory. I can see how there is a form of
self-contradiction or
paradox involved in an action which is meant to destroy its doer; to conclude
from this that this renders it morally impermissible is perhaps to conclude too
much. Homicide or destruction of property is not seemingly self-contradictory
in the same way, yet this does not render it morally permissible.
DM: What is unclear here is what kind or "form of self-contradiction or
paradox" is involved here: it seems to me it is clearly not a logical
self-contradiction or paradox, for this would make the action a practical
impossibility.
*I am not sure that everything that seems to be a logical contradiction is a
practical impossibility. (We know that Metaphysics has long tried to explain
the world by using logic and the results are debatable to say the least.)
If so, what kind of non-logical self-contradiction or paradox is it?
*There is a discussion of paradox here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox
It seems to me that suicide is at the very least paradoxical in the sense that
it defies the ordinary assumptions or ideas about action, intentionality, and
agency. It's an action intended to destroy the agency, thus preventing any
further actions or intentions, and also making any of its consequences further
irrelevant to the agency itself. (Since it will not be there to observe the
consequences, or take responsibility for them, or benefit from them.)
It might be self-contradictory if we interpret it in terms of intentions or
statements; if it's a statement meant to remind others that one exists, then it
does so in an odd way by putting oneself out of physical existence. Or, if it's
meant to annihilate one's existence, then it does so in an odd way by asserting
personal agency in an action that will attract attention and have serious
consequences for others. This though depends on the interpretation of the
intentions behind the suicidal act.
DM: While I agree suicide and homicide are quite distinct categories morally,
without clarification of what kind of self-contradiction etc. is involved,
surely we might argue that homicide and property destruction are also
self-contradictory/paradoxical
*I guess that Kant might argue that suicide and homicide are essentially the
same since they both destroy rational moral agency. But then this is vulnerable
to objections such as homicide might also be justifiable in some cases, other
actions that do not destroy human agency are not justifiable and so on.
DM: That is, this notion of self-contradiction and paradox strikes me as
needing (logical) clarification, without which the notion may simply ground
what are quite obscure propositions.
* I am not sure that I have the exact definition, but see above. Presumably to
have a formal logical contradiction we would need to interpret suicide in the
form of propositions or statements.
DM: Be this as it may, it does not elucidate why suicide is a central or even
very special moral problem. The magnitude of the consequences make it
quantitively different to, say, self-harm - but do they make it qualitively
different in a philosophical sense? This reply does not answer my question on
this point.
*It's an important moral problem being (like homicide in this sense) an action
that destroys rational moral agency, yet we feel that it might in some cases be
permissible, perhaps more likely to be permissible than homicide which destroys
not one's own rational agency but that of another. Why it's an interesting
philosophical problem I hope that I have already shown.
O.K.
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